2018 Offseason And Targets

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NYCBrave said:
I've made the argument before that a catcher who is an elite pitch framer and one who can handle is staff well is more important than an offense first one. I say that because of all the young arms we'll be funneling up over the next few years. Thoughts on that?
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A lot of folks think the same thing, including AA (according to past quotes and time spent in the Dodgers FO) and many posters here. It’s probably why Suzuki wasn’t extended, why Flowers was extended, and is going to be a huge factor guiding the FO in acquiring the next catcher as well.

It’s the main reason I don’t think they will pay the price to acquire Realmuto, and is why I think Grandal should be FA target #1. He is an elite framer as well as an impact bat. He can probably spend time at 1b as he ages when Freeman’s contract is up.
 
Agree with Grandal... it may be a pipe dream but of all the big name guys he's the one we are most likely to afford. He would improve our team immensely and then Flowers is a fantastic backup
 
Enscheff said:
A lot of folks think the same thing, including AA (according to past quotes and time spent in the Dodgers FO) and many posters here. It’s probably why Suzuki wasn’t extended, why Flowers was extended, and is going to be a huge factor guiding the FO in acquiring the next catcher as well.

It’s the main reason I don’t think they will pay the price to acquire Realmuto, and is why I think Grandal should be FA target #1. He is an elite framer as well as an impact bat. He can probably spend time at 1b as he ages when Freeman’s contract is up.
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I would like to sign Grandal, but the age is a slight concern. I don't see 1B as a viable option for him. He suddenly becomes a clearly below-average 1B unless he's phenomenal defensively there.
 
AA made some comments during his time in Toronto that he liked the "gamers" that play hard and you can pencil in every day. However, I think his time in L.A. may have showed him that you need a deep roster and stashing guys on the DL (mostly pitchers) can be an effective way to navigate a long season as long as you have depth.

He may decide to take this practice to the offensive side, by taking a chance on guys like Brantley, Donaldson, or Pollock that you can't really pencil in for 150 games, but can most likely get 115 out of. You'd have to have a strong bench or guys waiting in the minors for this to make sense, but I could see him going that route if it cost less for these guys.
 
provided the mariners do the right thing and sell, what does haniger cost? has control left and was at 4.6 fWAR last year. wonder if they would take something like wright, waters, and fried and/or wentz
 
smootness said:
I would like to sign Grandal, but the age is a slight concern. I don't see 1B as a viable option for him. He suddenly becomes a clearly below-average 1B unless he's phenomenal defensively there.
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Grandal's career wRC+ is 117. The average MLB 1B posted a 105 wRC+ in 2018. So no, he would not be "a clearly below-average 1B".

Grandal would be a perfectly adequate option at 1B, especially if he still split time behind the plate with a young guy like Contreras.
 
Enscheff said:
Grandal's career wRC+ is 117. The average MLB 1B posted a 105 wRC+ in 2018. So no, he would not be "a clearly below-average 1B".

Grandal would be a perfectly adequate option at 1B, especially if he still split time behind the plate with a young guy like Contreras.
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Good call. I guess a more accurate statement would be to say that he's fine at 1B at his current offensive production but not exactly the kind of bat a contender would want as their everyday guy there.
 
smootness said:
Good call. I guess a more accurate statement would be to say that he's fine at 1B at his current offensive production but not exactly the kind of bat a contender would want as their everyday guy there.
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You may want to review the 1B production current contenders got in 2018. Quite a few of them would have welcomed a 117 wRC+ bat at the position.

When I say "move Grandal to 1B" I mean it as a fallback plan if he hurts his knee or hip like Posey. The fact his bat plays at 1B helps mitigate the downside of giving him 5 years (which I'm fairly certain he will get).
 
Enscheff said:
You may want to review the 1B production current contenders got in 2018. Quite a few of them would have welcomed a 117 wRC+ bat at the position.

When I say "move Grandal to 1B" I mean it as a fallback plan if he hurts his knee or hip like Posey. The fact his bat plays at 1B helps mitigate the downside of giving him 5 years (which I'm fairly certain he will get).
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Yeah, but will his bat play at 1B in 2022-2023. We have a first baseman for the next three years.

McCann wRC+ numbers

2011 122
2012 87 (shoulder injury requiring surgery)
2013 122

signs with Yankees after age 29 season

2014 94
2015 106
2016 102
2017 104
2018 82

Grandal is just finishing up his age 29 season.
 
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nsacpi said:
Yeah, but will his bat play at 1B in 2022-2023. We have a first baseman for the next three years.

McCann wRC+ numbers

2011 122
2012 87 (shoulder injury requiring surgery)
2013 122

signs with Yankees after age 29 season

2014 94
2015 106
2016 102
2017 104
2018 82

Grandal is just finishing up his age 29 season.
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What do Laird’s numbers look like?
 
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If you sign Grandal to a 5 year deal you go in understanding the last two years likely won't be that good offensively.
 
nsacpi said:
Yeah, but will his bat play at 1B in 2022-2023. We have a first baseman for the next three years.

McCann wRC+ numbers

2011 122
2012 87 (shoulder injury requiring surgery)
2013 122

signs with Yankees after age 29 season

2014 94
2015 106
2016 102
2017 104
2018 82

Grandal is just finishing up his age 29 season.
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Will it play at 1B as a Plan B after Freeman leaves if Grandal suffers a hip injury or something similar that prevents him from catching? Yes, probably.

Will it play in a part time role at 1B to get his bat into the lineup more often if the Braves don't acquire a full time 1B after Freeman? Yes, probably.

Again, I did not suggest he moves to 1B as if it's some sort of awesome scenario. I stated it is an option that limits his ultimate downside in the event he gets hurt and can't play catcher 3-4 years into the deal. Other less offensively gifted catchers do not have that fallback Plan B.

Limiting ultimate downside has real value when handing out 5 year deals.
 
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nsacpi said:
Yeah, but will his bat play at 1B in 2022-2023. We have a first baseman for the next three years.

McCann wRC+ numbers

2011 122
2012 87 (shoulder injury requiring surgery)
2013 122

signs with Yankees after age 29 season

2014 94
2015 106
2016 102
2017 104
2018 82

Grandal is just finishing up his age 29 season.
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Makes absolutely no difference to me whether his bat would play there at the end of Freddie's deal (whether in a part-time role or not), I want no part of a 5 year deal for any Catcher. If they weren't willing to go there with Mac when he arguably meant as much to the franchise as Freddie does today, there's not a 30-ish year old Catcher out there worth doing it for.

I'm not sure you wouldn't be better off extending Freddie for two more years at that point and counting on Contreras to be the everyday guy behind the plate.
 
We've had an awfully good thing with the Flowers-Suzuki combo. I'd try to squeeze another year out of it, although I'd be fine too with Flowers-Maldonado.

It would allow us to spend more on:

1) A corner outfielder (sign Brantley or trade for Peralta)
2) A quality arm for the back end of the pen (Britton, Familia or Robertson)
3) A quality infielder (Escobar, Cabrera or Gonzalez)
 
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nsacpi said:
We've had an awfully good thing with the Flowers-Suzuki combo. I'd try to squeeze another year out of it.

It would allow us to spend more on:

1) A corner outfielder (sign Brantley or trade for Peralta)
2) A quality arm for the back end of the pen (Britton or Robertson)
3) A quality infielder (Escobar, Cabrera or Gonzalez)
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Particularly if you think Contreras will be able to handle the job full-time in 2021 and could split time with Flow in 2020. You've still got A-Jax who could split time with him in 2020.

Don't have any idea whether that's possible just yet, but I'd rather gamble on that timeline working out and adjusting on the fly if it doesn't rather than give Grandal 5 years.

I'm certainly not against signing Grandal in the least, but I wouldn't go 5 years, even if that means you don't get him. The Braves aren't going to be able to contend in that 5th year trying to use him as a part-time player making $18 million, especially when you consider what Albies, Acuna, and others will be making at that point.
 
Enscheff said:
Will it play at 1B as a Plan B after Freeman leaves if Grandal suffers a hip injury or something similar that prevents him from catching? Yes, probably.

Will it play in a part time role at 1B to get his bat into the lineup more often if the Braves don't acquire a full time 1B after Freeman? Yes, probably.

Again, I did not suggest he moves to 1B as if it's some sort of awesome scenario. I stated it is an option that limits his ultimate downside in the event he gets hurt and can't play catcher 3-4 years into the deal. Other less offensively gifted catchers do not have that fallback Plan B.

Limiting ultimate downside has real value when handing out 5 year deals.
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The chatter about moving a guy to 1st in three years begs the question of when and if do you try to extend Freddie? I’m confident he will be a 3 war a year player the next three years. Is now the time to offer say a 3/75 extension with a few option years? If he hits the market with 10 consecutive above average seasons even at 31 he will get more than 75 million.
 
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