2018 Offseason And Targets

[Enscheff]

Well, I don't really understand the mechanics of shoulder injuries, but the words that seem to go along with career threatening shoulder injuries (rotator cuff, labrum) do not seem to be associated with Soroka at this point.

The baseball america article referenced muscular issues, but no structural damage. Cartilage and ligaments are harder to repair than muscle, but I would guess that a muscular imbalance could lead to structural damage later. I have no idea what the regimen of strengthening other muscles to obtain a better advance would add to that prognosis but that seems to be what he's been working on.

I think downplaying Sixto's injury history is questionable. He's super young, throwing super hard, and he's had almost immediate injury trouble in his career.

But they very well may be similar values. Sixto seems to have better stuff and I've never been huge on Soroka.

I don't think the Phillies are much more likely to part with a 60 guy for Realmuto than anyone else though.

OK, then let me educate you.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/now-healthy-mike-soroka-remains-confident-heading-into-2019/

"Once the problem was properly diagnosed as shoulder inflammation in his subscap muscle"

The rotator cuff consists of the supraspinatus, infraspinatus, subscapularis and teres minor muscles.

The subscap is responsible for stopping the humerus (upper arm bone) from coming out of the shoulder socket when forced forward...aka throwing a baseball.

As I said, shoulder issues are the scariest injuries for pitchers, and it isn't even close.

 

[Southcack77]

I used to be more again the DH in the NL.

I do think there is more strategy, but after 40 years or so I'm mostly bored with watching the same decisions over and over again. It does also interject scarcity into the mix, both of arms and bats, and I guess that makes for angst but I'm not sure it really makes for a better product.

College baseball is an inferior product for the most part, but I can't say that the reason has anything to do with not watching pitchers fail at the plate. I don't find myself lamenting the absence of double switches or pitcher bunts. You get enough bunting in college baseball for anyone.

I guess more than anything, I'm bored with NL strategy and don't find it all that big a deal. It doesn't take a genius to manage it.

Losing that element of the game is probably outweighed by seeing fewer pitching changes, fewer bunts, fewer examples of rallies dying when teams pitch around bottom of the order to get the easy out from the pitcher (even if the Braves suck at getting pitchers out).

There is more drama from watching the best pitcher face a quality hitter.

I don't much care that DH's don't play the field. We already have players on the field who are really bad at a major aspect of the game - we call them pitchers. Trading one flavor of incompetence for another flavor doesn't really bother me.

It seems silly that the two leagues have different rules and that the championship is determined by a hybrid set of rules that disadvantages both in their respective parks.

 

[Southcack77]

OK, then let me educate you.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/now-healthy-mike-soroka-remains-confident-heading-into-2019/

"Once the problem was properly diagnosed as shoulder inflammation in his subscap muscle"

The rotator cuff consists of the supraspinatus, infraspinatus, subscapularis and teres minor muscles.

The subscap is responsible for stopping the humorous (upper arm bone) from coming out of the shoulder socket when forced forward...aka throwing a baseball.

As I said, shoulder issues are the scariest injuries for pitchers, and it isn't even close.

Like I said, I have no idea whether muscle imbalance/infalmmation in the shoulder can lead to tears of the tendons and cartilage in the shoulder. I'm sure there may well be a cause and effect there, but what you have written does not really speak to that.

I have learned a ton on this board, so if this is something you've got some experience with or a link to article that discusses muscles vs. tendons/cartilage, I'd be fascinated to add it to my reading list.

 

[Enscheff]

Like I said, I have no idea whether muscle imbalance/infalmmation in the shoulder can lead to tears of the tendons and cartilage in the shoulder. I'm sure there may well be a cause and effect there, but what you have written does not really speak to that.

I have learned a ton on this board, so if this is something you've got some experience with or a link to article that discusses muscles vs. tendons/cartilage, I'd be fascinated to add it to my reading list.

I can see this is going down the path of arguing semantics over the meaning of words like "injury", "caused", and "damage", so I'll just stop after this post.

Fact of the matter is Soroka had an injury to his rotator cuff (twice-ish), and luckily the Braves caught and diagnosed it early...just like the Phils caught and diagnosed Sixto's elbow injury early.

I fully expect Braves fans to attempt to minimize the significance of Soroka's injury because...well...they are Braves fans. Even seeing Gohara recently experience recurring shoulder issues isn't going to alter their homerific views on Soroka's shoulder issue. I get it, so I'll just stick with relaying facts.

We can all agree that we hope the early diagnosis means it won't be an issue going forward though.

 

[striker42]

I can see this is going down the path of arguing semantics over the meaning of words like "injury", "caused", and "damage", so I'll just stop after this post.

Fact of the matter is Soroka had an injury to his rotator cuff (twice-ish), and luckily the Braves caught and diagnosed it early...just like the Phils caught and diagnosed Sixto's elbow injury early.

I fully expect Braves fans to attempt to minimize the significance of Soroka's injury because...well...they are Braves fans. Even seeing Gohara recently experience recurring shoulder issues isn't going to alter their homerific views on Soroka's shoulder issue. I get it, so I'll just stick with relaying facts.

We can all agree that we hope the early diagnosis means it won't be an issue going forward though.

I agree on Soroka's shoulder issues being really concerning. I find myself wanting to discount them but if I'm honest, it's just denial. Anytime a pitcher misses significant time with a shoulder issue, it's a huge red flag.

Now, if Soroka comes out this year and pitches a full year with no shoulder issues, I'll feel a lot better.

If Soroka hadn't had the shoulder injury, he'd be clearly more valuable than Sixto. If both had no injury issues, it's probably a push in terms of value. But I have to give the nod to Sixto on current value solely because shoulder issues tend to be worse than elbow issues.

 

[Carp]

Finally, an argument for pitchers hitting that actually holds logical merit.

One of the fundamental aspects of baseball is that each player must be able to play a defensive position as well as take his turn batting. The decision to sacrifice offense for defense is key to line up construction strategy. It is logically sound to argue no position on the field should be exempt from this fundamental rule of baseball.

The slippery slope arguments that typically follow this point, or the moronic arguments about strategy aren't as sound (at all) as the point in bold.

I mean as far as strategy, I would imagine at least once every couple of weeks NL teams have a close low scoring game heading into the 5th, 6th, or 7th with the pitcher due up. Do you pinch hit for your pitcher to get a rally started and leave the game to your pen? Or do you leave your starter in since he's on a roll?

Obviously once every 2 weeks is an total guess. But if it does happen that often, it's not insignificant.

 

[Hudson2]

So the Marlins wanna complete a deal by the weekend? They need to set a deadline for all teams final offers by Friday and get this done and over.

 

[Enscheff]

I mean as far as strategy, I would imagine at least once every couple of weeks NL teams have a close low scoring game heading into the 6th with the pitcher due up. Do you pinch hit for your pitcher to get a rally started and leave the game to your pen? Or do you leave your starter in since he's on a roll?

Obviously once every 2 weeks is an total guess. But if it does happen that often, it's not insignificant.

Modern day analytics allow managers to understand that "he's on a roll" means absolutely nothing if he's about to face the order a 3rd time.

This is not rocket science to make these decisions, and certainly not worth watching that pitcher flail away for 5 minutes.

Folks who talk lovingly about the strategy involved in the NL game probably love it because it's the most complicated subject they've been able to master. They just mastered what ERA is, and now have been told it's a stat for dummies. Enough is enough with the math!!

 

[Southcack77]

I can see this is going down the path of arguing semantics over the meaning of words like "injury", "caused", and "damage", so I'll just stop after this post.

Fact of the matter is Soroka had an injury to his rotator cuff (twice-ish), and luckily the Braves caught and diagnosed it early...just like the Phils caught and diagnosed Sixto's elbow injury early.

I fully expect Braves fans to attempt to minimize the significance of Soroka's injury because...well...they are Braves fans. Even seeing Gohara recently experience recurring shoulder issues isn't going to alter their homerific views on Soroka's shoulder issue. I get it, so I'll just stick with relaying facts.

We can all agree that we hope the early diagnosis means it won't be an issue going forward though.

My impression from life is there is a dramatic difference between tearing tendons and cartilage and straining a muscle but if you want to call that semantics I guess we can leave it there.

 

[Southcack77]

I mean as far as strategy, I would imagine at least once every couple of weeks NL teams have a close low scoring game heading into the 5th, 6th, or 7th with the pitcher due up. Do you pinch hit for your pitcher to get a rally started and leave the game to your pen? Or do you leave your starter in since he's on a roll?

Obviously once every 2 weeks is an total guess. But if it does happen that often, it's not insignificant.

I mean sure it’s something that involves strategy and judgment and making decisions. it is a significant factor in many nl games.

The question is whether it really is all that enjoyable.

I no longer find it particularly interesting or enjoyable and don’t particularly think it’s essential to the game. So I don’t care if they take it out and I doubt the rank and file would either.

 

[clvclv]

I agree on Soroka's shoulder issues being really concerning. I find myself wanting to discount them but if I'm honest, it's just denial. Anytime a pitcher misses significant time with a shoulder issue, it's a huge red flag.

Now, if Soroka comes out this year and pitches a full year with no shoulder issues, I'll feel a lot better.

If Soroka hadn't had the shoulder injury, he'd be clearly more valuable than Sixto. If both had no injury issues, it's probably a push in terms of value. But I have to give the nod to Sixto on current value solely because shoulder issues tend to be worse than elbow issues.

Not much reason for anyone to disagree. Still not interested in including Soroka or Wright in any deal for Realmuto, and now that it looks like the DH is finally coming, I'd be less inclined to involve Riley either.

If Philly's dumb enough to give up on Sixto in that type of deal, let them have him - their problem is that they don't have enough pitching to begin with.

 

[Hudson2]

Not much reason for anyone to disagree. Still not interested in including Soroka or Wright in any deal for Realmuto, and now that it looks like the DH is finally coming, I'd be less inclined to involve Riley either.

If Philly's dumb enough to give up on Sixto in that type of deal, let them have him - their problem is that they don't have enough pitching to begin with.

They would just turn around and sign Keuchel. Nola, Keuchel, and Arietta isn’t a bad top 3.

 

[TheRunningAgent]

Being a Realtor, it’s like what we do with a listing. Bring yu R highest and best offer by 6pm on Friday. Winner gets the deal.

 

[Super]

They would just turn around and sign Keuchel. Nola, Keuchel, and Arietta isn’t a bad top 3.

arrieta isn’t good at all and is regressing each year

 

[bravesfanMatt]

arrieta isn’t good at all and is regressing each year

Yup. So if they give up Sixto for 2 years of JTR then they will be spending stupid money every year for pitching to pair with Nola. Then maybe they sign Dallas to a 3 to 4 year deal to add another declining pitcher to go with Jake.

 

[bravesfanMatt]

arrieta isn’t good at all and is regressing each year

Yup. So if they give up Sixto for 2 years of JTR then they will be spending stupid money every year for pitching to pair with Nola. Then maybe they sign Dallas to a 3 to 4 year deal to add another declining pitcher to go with Jake.

 

[TheBravos]

Modern day analytics allow managers to understand that "he's on a roll" means absolutely nothing if he's about to face the order a 3rd time.

This is not rocket science to make these decisions, and certainly not worth watching that pitcher flail away for 5 minutes.

Folks who talk lovingly about the strategy involved in the NL game probably love it because it's the most complicated subject they've been able to master. They just mastered what ERA is, and now have been told it's a stat for dummies. Enough is enough with the math!!

I’m against the DH because we would lose Folty’s bat.

In all seriousness...would miss seeing Muller bat if he ever makes the show.

DH makes sense....there’s honestly pros and cons for either. Right now it’s an advantage for the AL.

 

[TheBravos]

Yup. So if they give up Sixto for 2 years of JTR then they will be spending stupid money every year for pitching to pair with Nola. Then maybe they sign Dallas to a 3 to 4 year deal to add another declining pitcher to go with Jake.

Two years of a catcher, who doesn’t play every game, and who might be a platoon player if he played a different position.

Am I crazy here?? I like JT. I get he is the best catcher on the market. He would have to play his butt off BOTH years to garner that kind of value.

 

[TheBravos]

Watch the Marlins hold out and end up getting a package just like Yelich.

I can’t stand Jeter. If the Yankees were interested...he would have already taken whatever crap package they offered.

 

[striker42]

Not much reason for anyone to disagree. Still not interested in including Soroka or Wright in any deal for Realmuto, and now that it looks like the DH is finally coming, I'd be less inclined to involve Riley either.

If Philly's dumb enough to give up on Sixto in that type of deal, let them have him - their problem is that they don't have enough pitching to begin with.

Yup. I have no desire to trade Soroka. And good point about the DH with Riley.