Just have to think the asking price for Shaw will have increased now that they've made a fairly deep October run. Does it really make sense to try to re-sign Moose as a free-agent if you don't get a pretty substantial pitching return back? I don't recall anyone with credible names that were being discussed for him (actually don't even remember more than speculation that he was even someone AA was in on "for sure"), but when looking at our "improve at the edges without giving up much" deadline strategy I wouldn't imagine their asking price hasn't escalated.
2018 Offseason And Targets
- Thread starter clvclv
- Start date
- Status
Just have to think the asking price for Shaw will have increased now that they've made a fairly deep October run. Does it really make sense to try to re-sign Moose as a free-agent if you don't get a pretty substantial pitching return back? I don't recall anyone with credible names that were being discussed for him (actually don't even remember more than speculation that he was even someone AA was in on "for sure"), but when looking at our "improve at the edges without giving up much" deadline strategy I wouldn't imagine their asking price hasn't escalated.
No genius, the simple pointing out that you did as bad a job projecting how many games they'd win this year is reward enough - mainly because it eats at you hourly.
Finally figured out what you do the 3 hours a day when you're not here - you're that guy following everyone around on Facebook trying to turn every post someone makes into a political argument.
You're the one who brings it up constantly despite several folks telling you how stupid of a point it is. I don't think I'm that one who dwells on it much lol.
So...Sale for Jenkins didn't happen, neither did Odorizzi for MAdams, nor did Gordon for Albies...what other marvelous ideas will you have for us this off season?
NYCBrave
Well-known member
The problem with Shaw is he's basically unusable against lefties. I mean horrible against them. Don't want to over pay for a guy you can only play part time.
Southcack77
Well-known member
The other problem being that he's an very valuable, cheap asset for a mid-market team that is in the dead center of its contention window.
GeorgiaGirl
NL Rookie of the Year
I'd trade Newcomb in whatever the trade is for the offseason, preferably in a package for Realmuto, or if the cost is unreasonable, for that coveted outfielder while signing Grandal. Keep Fried and let him get 1 more shot at running away with a starting job, but if not, convert him into an Andrew Miller/Josh Hader like role in season (and he could just do that and run away with a job, but if he keeps having his weird injuries he won't).
It might be a dumb as heck feeling but in my opinion if he has to, I think Fried>Newcomb in a Miller/Hader like role. At the same time, if he stays I also think he's the Medlen of the group (just with completely different stuff), and if he gets a real shot in Atlanta, he could pitch pretty dang well and run away with his shot.
It might be a dumb as heck feeling but in my opinion if he has to, I think Fried>Newcomb in a Miller/Hader like role. At the same time, if he stays I also think he's the Medlen of the group (just with completely different stuff), and if he gets a real shot in Atlanta, he could pitch pretty dang well and run away with his shot.
This is why the Braves won't outbid teams like the Yankees for guys like Harper or Machado:
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-yankees-have-a-lot-of-payroll-to-use/
The money quote:
"At the moment, the Yankees have $40 million to spend before they arrive at even the first tax threshold and $80 million before the worst of the penalties...New York could sign Patrick Corbin, Clayton Kershaw, and Manny Machado and still end up spending the same amount on payroll and taxes as they did in the 2015 and -16 seasons."
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-yankees-have-a-lot-of-payroll-to-use/
The money quote:
"At the moment, the Yankees have $40 million to spend before they arrive at even the first tax threshold and $80 million before the worst of the penalties...New York could sign Patrick Corbin, Clayton Kershaw, and Manny Machado and still end up spending the same amount on payroll and taxes as they did in the 2015 and -16 seasons."
Same reason I'd have no interest in trading for Joc Pederson.
Acuña’s Bat Flip
NL Rookie of the Year
My first stab at an offseason. This is not necessarily what I think AA will do, but I tried to make it believable and helpful to the club.
- Sign Brantley to play LF for 3/42
He is a risk, no doubt about that. But if he can stay healthy and hit the way he did the last 1.5 years, ATL has their 2-hole hitter. Also comes from a winning program, which I think is important.
- Sign Marwin Gonzalez - UTIL for 2/20
I think Marwin is unlikely as I think he will want to start somewhere. But he would be great insurance against Brantley’s health and/or Camargo slumping. I think he can get his ABs in ATL, too. He is also a great bat off the bench; a switch hitting one. Lastly, he too comes from a winning program.
- Sign Wilson Ramos - C for 2/15
Ramos is a great fit for ATL. He shouldn’t demand a long or big contract, is good defensively, and can get plenty of days off with Flowers on the roster. Should also slow down opponents on the base paths.
- Trade for Noah Syndergaard
No one likes trading in division and Thor has his health concerns. He is also real good. ATL has the arms to eat some innings and be OK if they need to. Folty and Thor would be a really nice 1-2 punch at the top of the rotation. ATL has the prospects to get this done, too and they get 3 ARB years out of Noah.
If the G. Cole Trade is any indication - he had 3 yrs of ARB eligibility and was 27 yrs old - ATL could obtain a 26 yr old Thor with something like Gohara/Wentz headlining the trade. Maybe an Anderson type instead of Gohara.
- Trade Teheran
This $$ can be better spent elsewhere. Someone will give ATL something for him.
These moves make-up the following roster:
- Lineup -
Albies -2B (560K)
Brantley - LF (14 million)
Acuna - RF (560K)
Freeman - 1B (21 million)
Camargo - 3B (560K)
Ramos - C (7.5 million)
Inciarte - CF (5.7 million)
Swanson - SS (560K)
I put Ozzie at leadoff as I think he will get better at OBP and he is a spark plug when hitting. It also gives Acuna a chance to drive in more runs. This lineup looks a bit deeper, but scoring runs was not ATL’s problem this past year.
- Rotation -
Folty (5.5 million)
Syndergaard (5.9 million)
Gausman (9.2 million)
Newcomb (560K)
Touki/Soroka/Fried/Allard (560K)
(21.12)
This rotation is an upgrade over last year’s. It also has a couple legit starters at the top. Lastly, ATL has a bunch of young arms to start filling spots in 2019 & 2020.
- Bench -
Culberson - UTIL (1.4 million)
Gonzalez - UTIL (10 million)
Flowers - C (4 million)
Duvall - OF (3.1 million)
(18.5)
I only have 4 bench players here. These would be the major players. It is also a very solid bench and almost anyone could be added at league minimum and this would still be a really good bench.
- Bullpen -
Minter - lhp (560K)
Vizcaino - rhp (4.8 million)
O’Day - rhp (9 million)
Ramirez - rhp (700K)
Venters - lhp (1.5 million)
Biddle - lhp (560K)
Winkler - rhp (1.6 million)
Jackson - rhp - Long reliever (560K)
Carle** - rhp
Freeman* - lhp
Some decisions to be made here.
* = cut/no ARB offer
** = minors
This is addition through health. A healthy Vizcaino, O’Day, and Ramirez, plus a full year of Venters and the BP is clearly better than last year. No big names added, but this group is deep and capable.
Total Salary - apprx. 110 million
- Overview -
-
First, this probably allows ATL to keep their 1st round picks, which I think will be important.
Everything considered I went with depth over star power on offense. ATL can score runs, they proved that this year. They did lack good depth, so I tried to address that. I don’t think AA blocks 3B until they know what they have in Camargo and/or Riley.
I feel like the BP could use a bit more help than I gave them, but that can always be addressed mid-season. This unit has 4-5 guys who could pitch comfortably from the 7th inning on. That is better than last year.
SP is what will make this team better. Thor is a huge upgrade over Teheran. A full year of Gausman will probably be Sanchez like. Newcomb as the #4 is good depth. I don’t love Corbin (FA) and he would probably cost ATL a pick plus $$, so I say no to that. If ATL could go bigger and land a true ace via trade (ie - deGrom) I would be all in.
Ultimately I think this mock would allow ATL to not lose anything offensively (maybe gain), while adding more depth to the BP and bench and adding a top SP arm to help take another step forward. Their defense remains really good, as well.
One Machado or Harper would cost as much as Brantley, Ramos, and some of Gonzalez - ALONE. I decided that $$ could be better spent on solid pieces instead of one stud.
Lastly, depending on payroll, I would not be opposed to adding a Kimbrel in FA. I think that could solidify a monster offseason along with these other moves.
- Notes -
*I used Tim Dierkes ARB projections for arbitration eligible players.
*I used W. Castillo as a starting point for Ramos’ contract.
*I used J. Bruce as a starting point for Brantley’s contract.
*I used T. Frazier as a starting point for Marwin’s contract.
*Some ideas from another forum.
- Sign Brantley to play LF for 3/42
He is a risk, no doubt about that. But if he can stay healthy and hit the way he did the last 1.5 years, ATL has their 2-hole hitter. Also comes from a winning program, which I think is important.
- Sign Marwin Gonzalez - UTIL for 2/20
I think Marwin is unlikely as I think he will want to start somewhere. But he would be great insurance against Brantley’s health and/or Camargo slumping. I think he can get his ABs in ATL, too. He is also a great bat off the bench; a switch hitting one. Lastly, he too comes from a winning program.
- Sign Wilson Ramos - C for 2/15
Ramos is a great fit for ATL. He shouldn’t demand a long or big contract, is good defensively, and can get plenty of days off with Flowers on the roster. Should also slow down opponents on the base paths.
- Trade for Noah Syndergaard
No one likes trading in division and Thor has his health concerns. He is also real good. ATL has the arms to eat some innings and be OK if they need to. Folty and Thor would be a really nice 1-2 punch at the top of the rotation. ATL has the prospects to get this done, too and they get 3 ARB years out of Noah.
If the G. Cole Trade is any indication - he had 3 yrs of ARB eligibility and was 27 yrs old - ATL could obtain a 26 yr old Thor with something like Gohara/Wentz headlining the trade. Maybe an Anderson type instead of Gohara.
- Trade Teheran
This $$ can be better spent elsewhere. Someone will give ATL something for him.
These moves make-up the following roster:
- Lineup -
Albies -2B (560K)
Brantley - LF (14 million)
Acuna - RF (560K)
Freeman - 1B (21 million)
Camargo - 3B (560K)
Ramos - C (7.5 million)
Inciarte - CF (5.7 million)
Swanson - SS (560K)
I put Ozzie at leadoff as I think he will get better at OBP and he is a spark plug when hitting. It also gives Acuna a chance to drive in more runs. This lineup looks a bit deeper, but scoring runs was not ATL’s problem this past year.
- Rotation -
Folty (5.5 million)
Syndergaard (5.9 million)
Gausman (9.2 million)
Newcomb (560K)
Touki/Soroka/Fried/Allard (560K)
(21.12)
This rotation is an upgrade over last year’s. It also has a couple legit starters at the top. Lastly, ATL has a bunch of young arms to start filling spots in 2019 & 2020.
- Bench -
Culberson - UTIL (1.4 million)
Gonzalez - UTIL (10 million)
Flowers - C (4 million)
Duvall - OF (3.1 million)
(18.5)
I only have 4 bench players here. These would be the major players. It is also a very solid bench and almost anyone could be added at league minimum and this would still be a really good bench.
- Bullpen -
Minter - lhp (560K)
Vizcaino - rhp (4.8 million)
O’Day - rhp (9 million)
Ramirez - rhp (700K)
Venters - lhp (1.5 million)
Biddle - lhp (560K)
Winkler - rhp (1.6 million)
Jackson - rhp - Long reliever (560K)
Carle** - rhp
Freeman* - lhp
Some decisions to be made here.
* = cut/no ARB offer
** = minors
This is addition through health. A healthy Vizcaino, O’Day, and Ramirez, plus a full year of Venters and the BP is clearly better than last year. No big names added, but this group is deep and capable.
Total Salary - apprx. 110 million
- Overview -
-
First, this probably allows ATL to keep their 1st round picks, which I think will be important.
Everything considered I went with depth over star power on offense. ATL can score runs, they proved that this year. They did lack good depth, so I tried to address that. I don’t think AA blocks 3B until they know what they have in Camargo and/or Riley.
I feel like the BP could use a bit more help than I gave them, but that can always be addressed mid-season. This unit has 4-5 guys who could pitch comfortably from the 7th inning on. That is better than last year.
SP is what will make this team better. Thor is a huge upgrade over Teheran. A full year of Gausman will probably be Sanchez like. Newcomb as the #4 is good depth. I don’t love Corbin (FA) and he would probably cost ATL a pick plus $$, so I say no to that. If ATL could go bigger and land a true ace via trade (ie - deGrom) I would be all in.
Ultimately I think this mock would allow ATL to not lose anything offensively (maybe gain), while adding more depth to the BP and bench and adding a top SP arm to help take another step forward. Their defense remains really good, as well.
One Machado or Harper would cost as much as Brantley, Ramos, and some of Gonzalez - ALONE. I decided that $$ could be better spent on solid pieces instead of one stud.
Lastly, depending on payroll, I would not be opposed to adding a Kimbrel in FA. I think that could solidify a monster offseason along with these other moves.
- Notes -
*I used Tim Dierkes ARB projections for arbitration eligible players.
*I used W. Castillo as a starting point for Ramos’ contract.
*I used J. Bruce as a starting point for Brantley’s contract.
*I used T. Frazier as a starting point for Marwin’s contract.
*Some ideas from another forum.
Personally feel the ship on Fried as a SP has sailed (unless he's traded), but think this is a good point. My preference as of today would be to quit jerking him around now and just tell him the plan moving forward is to only use him out of the pen unless there's an emergency. Give him Freeman's spot and save the million-ish dollars.
Wut
Syndergaard is way better than Cole had been, and he has one more year of team control left. The Mets would laugh so hard they'd choke to death if we offered that.
Bravesfannchar
Arizona Fall Leaguer
This is what frustrates me about baseball... Some people just have higher salary caps than others.
UNCBlue012
Well-known member
This is idiotic and doesn't seem fair.
NinersSBChamps
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br> 2015 (Co-Winner)</BR>20
Lol did someone really post something about why the Braves wouldn’t outbid the Yankees on a player.
In other news water is wet.
In other news water is wet.
NinersSBChamps
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br> 2015 (Co-Winner)</BR>20
And it’s all on the organizations themselves. If the Braves wanted to spend more on player salaries they could. Same goes for 29 other ball clubs. I agree it’s frustrating and that there should be some sort of hard cap.
Bravesfannchar
Arizona Fall Leaguer
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
I thought I might throw this out there. Braves are at a point where they have plenty of depth and very good players. If they add anyone, it really needs to be a difference maker. And we have the usual constraints as far as never outspending the Yankees, etc. In order to be the next top contender (think Red Sox/Astros) we're going to need to trade a few good assets (or as-yet undeveloped) for some that are upper echelon, camera ready now and for the next 3-4 years. I'm thinking pitching.
Folty isn't exactly Les Straker, but I thought pitching him in Game 1 as our big gun while the Dodgers threw Kershaw in 2, Buehler in 3 told me something about the difference between good and great. Trading for Verlander, or Sale, or Bumgarner has been done. You need to find the next difference maker, hopefully a little younger, but one who is on the cusp of dominating. And a willing partner to match up with.
Seattle won 89 games and spent a lot of the year throwing successful reclamation projects out there, or guys who would generally keep them in games but get rocked about every fifth game (Leake, Marco Gonzalez, Wade LeBlanc) one $27m albatross.... and James Paxton.
Paxton touched 100 in the ninth inning of his no hitter against Toronto. He's a big horse of a lefty now 27, who really knows how to pitch. Great control (2 BB/9), 11Ks/9, single digit HRs given up until this year. 7H/9. Developed a nice cutter for righties. Problem is injuries, but it's always appendicitis, finger ligament, oblique...three more years of control.
If we packaged three of our prospects (2 would have to hurt) say, Wright/Touki, maybe Newcomb and one farther away but a real prospect, I think Dipoto would jump on that. He stocks his painfully thin cupboard and we've got our young ace.
Folty isn't exactly Les Straker, but I thought pitching him in Game 1 as our big gun while the Dodgers threw Kershaw in 2, Buehler in 3 told me something about the difference between good and great. Trading for Verlander, or Sale, or Bumgarner has been done. You need to find the next difference maker, hopefully a little younger, but one who is on the cusp of dominating. And a willing partner to match up with.
Seattle won 89 games and spent a lot of the year throwing successful reclamation projects out there, or guys who would generally keep them in games but get rocked about every fifth game (Leake, Marco Gonzalez, Wade LeBlanc) one $27m albatross.... and James Paxton.
Paxton touched 100 in the ninth inning of his no hitter against Toronto. He's a big horse of a lefty now 27, who really knows how to pitch. Great control (2 BB/9), 11Ks/9, single digit HRs given up until this year. 7H/9. Developed a nice cutter for righties. Problem is injuries, but it's always appendicitis, finger ligament, oblique...three more years of control.
If we packaged three of our prospects (2 would have to hurt) say, Wright/Touki, maybe Newcomb and one farther away but a real prospect, I think Dipoto would jump on that. He stocks his painfully thin cupboard and we've got our young ace.
CrimsonCowboy
Moderator
From my perspective
One thing I’d like to see is the back of the bullpen worked on. I’ve been a Kimbrel fan, but after seeing him in the ALDS, I may back off a bit on that idea. I was hoping Britton would have been available at the deadline last year. He might be worth a look.
Definitely need a bat. I would like to kick the tires on Harper, but realistically, that’s not an option, I agree with most everyone here. I know he’s had a couple injury concerns, but I do like AJ Pollock, so he’s a FA idea. Though if Arizona is indeed serious about rebuilding, then David Peralta is the one I’d like to go after.
Now, I’m going to throw something out here. I’m going to get some groans, but that’s alright. If Jason Heyward does indeed opt out of his deal, would there be any chance the Braves might take a look? I’m not advocating, but just throwing it out there.
One thing I’d like to see is the back of the bullpen worked on. I’ve been a Kimbrel fan, but after seeing him in the ALDS, I may back off a bit on that idea. I was hoping Britton would have been available at the deadline last year. He might be worth a look.
Definitely need a bat. I would like to kick the tires on Harper, but realistically, that’s not an option, I agree with most everyone here. I know he’s had a couple injury concerns, but I do like AJ Pollock, so he’s a FA idea. Though if Arizona is indeed serious about rebuilding, then David Peralta is the one I’d like to go after.
Now, I’m going to throw something out here. I’m going to get some groans, but that’s alright. If Jason Heyward does indeed opt out of his deal, would there be any chance the Braves might take a look? I’m not advocating, but just throwing it out there.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
If we were to sign a Grandal or Realmuto, or even Flowers with a catch and throw guy, this is a top three defensive team. I think you do with a little less glove in RF if you have to and get a big-ass bat. And that's not our old friend Jason.
- Status