2018 Offseason And Targets

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Enscheff said:
Freeman is signed through his age 31 season at very reasonable rates. There is very little chance the Braves are paying for much decline...as long as they don't do something stupid with an extension.

Given the pretty poor returns from the prospects acquired in the tear down, it's pretty dumb to wish the same FO responsible for those mediocre prospect returns would have also been in charge of selling Freeman.
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Well, there is that. But that fits into the thinking that they weren't smart enough nor courageous enough to consider moving Freeman to begin with, the same malady that led them to completely waste whatever value Teheran might have had.

There's always the possibility that they make a Freeman trade into a Tex trade (have to have a ML 1B in return regardless of whether he is any good) or become the Marlins FO. Obviously, my thinking has always been based upon the idea that they would get an excellent return back for Freeman when they traded him. I understand that a perceived front end win can often turn into a long term loss (that risk is why you don't want to let your team get into the position of having to rebuild in the first place).

Freeman's value was completely wasted until 2018. It made no on the field difference of any substance whether he was there or not. The team was going to be bad. In fact, a strong argument can be made that having him there improving the record by 2-4 wins above where it would have been had he not been there was a detriment to the rebuild.

Essentially, IMO, and I've said it many times before, the rebuild was very badly handled. It may still work out ok anyway. But as it looks right now, given the payroll situation, I think any high water mark will be short lived with a most likely outcome of becoming a purgatory team for an extended period - not bad enough to fire everyone and rebuild again, not good enough to be really good enough to win anything beyond an occasional luck fueled WC or Division.
 
Harry's doomsday predictions are predicated on the Braves making lots of reckless deals trading away prospects. the Braves have yet to trade a significant prospect. If anything this offseason seems to suggest Atlanta is unwilling to trade a ransom of prospects for MLB stars.

If Braves felt like they had to get Haniger or Realmuto and were inclined to overpay, wouldn't these deals have already happened?

His predictions also require believe that the Braves have blown recent drafts and will continue to blow them such that there is not promotable talent to supplement the MLB club. Could be true, but we don't even know who they will draft at this point. How can we say they won't contribute?

It also assumes that the Braves do not make smart trades or clever signings.

......

The Braves might have a short window. Hell, they might not even have a window for all we know for certain. They might really screw up the drafts and their roster management. All of those things are possible.

But they are far from certain.

And I don't understand why we have to assume that this stuff will happen just out of a preference for a longer, crappier rebuild.
 
Southcack77 said:
Harry's doomsday predictions are predicated on the Braves making lots of reckless deals trading away prospects. the Braves have yet to trade a significant prospect. If anything this offseason seems to suggest Atlanta is unwilling to trade a ransom of prospects for MLB stars.

If Braves felt like they had to get Haniger or Realmuto and were inclined to overpay, wouldn't these deals have already happened?

His predictions also require believe that the Braves have blown recent drafts and will continue to blow them such that there is not promotable talent to supplement the MLB club. Could be true, but we don't even know who they will draft at this point. How can we say they won't contribute?

It also assumes that the Braves do not make smart trades or clever signings.

......

The Braves might have a short window. Hell, they might not even have a window for all we know for certain. They might really screw up the drafts and their roster management. All of those things are possible.

But they are far from certain.

And I don't understand why we have to assume that this stuff will happen just out of a preference for a longer, crappier rebuild.
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You're only getting part of it. The Braves have put themselves in a position of needing to get better without the finances to get better. That means that they have to trade assets built up from the rebuild to fill major holes at major cost or do nothing and hope or do some kind of halfway approach and pray.

If they were going to take the approach they've taken then they needed to be prepared to spend money on established players to fix major holes and spend prospect capital in a targeted and measured way with primary uses of in house talent being to infuse young, cheap talent to control costs.

If they weren't going to have the money, and it appears they don't, then they are much more dependent on in-house talent to carry the day. And they don't have enough or the right mix of in house talent to do the trick.
 
Southcack77 said:
Harry's doomsday predictions are predicated on the Braves making lots of reckless deals trading away prospects. the Braves have yet to trade a significant prospect. If anything this offseason seems to suggest Atlanta is unwilling to trade a ransom of prospects for MLB stars.

If Braves felt like they had to get Haniger or Realmuto and were inclined to overpay, wouldn't these deals have already happened?

His predictions also require believe that the Braves have blown recent drafts and will continue to blow them such that there is not promotable talent to supplement the MLB club. Could be true, but we don't even know who they will draft at this point. How can we say they won't contribute?

It also assumes that the Braves do not make smart trades or clever signings.

......

The Braves might have a short window. Hell, they might not even have a window for all we know for certain. They might really screw up the drafts and their roster management. All of those things are possible.

But they are far from certain.

And I don't understand why we have to assume that this stuff will happen just out of a preference for a longer, crappier rebuild.
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Our main problem is that too many prospects over achieved and were promoted so quickly. That’s a good problem, but is still a problem. You want many steady waves, not one big tidal wave (especially 80% pitchers). We will be fine, but need to be very careful and I feel like AA is doing that.

I wouldn’t have promoted so many so quick.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
You're only getting part of it. The Braves have put themselves in a position of needing to get better without the finances to get better. That means that they have to trade assets built up from the rebuild to fill major holes at major cost or do nothing and hope or do some kind of halfway approach and pray.

If they were going to take the approach they've taken then they needed to be prepared to spend money on established players to fix major holes and spend prospect capital in a targeted and measured way with primary uses of in house talent being to infuse young, cheap talent to control costs.

If they weren't going to have the money, and it appears they don't, then they are much more dependent on in-house talent to carry the day. And they don't have enough or the right mix of in house talent to do the trick.
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It's your premises that I disagree with.

I do think the Braves have the finances to get better. Their payroll figures to be in the 125-130m range with perhaps some room on the other end.

I don't think they are in a position where they have to overpay with prospects or other assets to fill major holes.

they've studiously avoided doing that and there is no reason to think that the prices they are willing to pay are going up now rather than down as the market thins.

In my opinion they could go into the season with what they have and maybe another bench OF and reasonably expect to stay in the playoff race through the summer when non-contenders will begin contemplating the repair that has crept into their hearts.

There is no urgency to do anything. And if they fall out, they can always sell, which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if that is what it came to either.
 
Enscheff said:
Getting Gray is likely contingent on using Newk in a trade for JTR or a cOF, and still having $9M to pay him.

I still think a Frazier/Gray package makes sense if the Braves sign Markakis or CarGo as well...less so if they somehow get Pollock at a bargain rate.

It's getting to be about time to either pull off the JTR trade or move on.
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Could may be send Julio over in a JTR trade to help free up some cash to do other things.
 
Southcack77 said:
Harry's doomsday predictions are predicated on the Braves making lots of reckless deals trading away prospects. the Braves have yet to trade a significant prospect. If anything this offseason seems to suggest Atlanta is unwilling to trade a ransom of prospects for MLB stars.

If Braves felt like they had to get Haniger or Realmuto and were inclined to overpay, wouldn't these deals have already happened?

His predictions also require believe that the Braves have blown recent drafts and will continue to blow them such that there is not promotable talent to supplement the MLB club. Could be true, but we don't even know who they will draft at this point. How can we say they won't contribute?

It also assumes that the Braves do not make smart trades or clever signings.

......

The Braves might have a short window. Hell, they might not even have a window for all we know for certain. They might really screw up the drafts and their roster management. All of those things are possible.

But they are far from certain.

And I don't understand why we have to assume that this stuff will happen just out of a preference for a longer, crappier rebuild.
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Regarding Haniger. Mariners apparently dont want to trade him, god knows why.

On Realmuto, the Marlins have played this situation so terribly. I still say the Braves have an offer on the table, and the Marlins if they wanna do business will come back calling if they dont like any of the other offers.
 
Heyward said:
Regarding Haniger. Mariners apparently dont want to trade him, god knows why.

On Realmuto, the Marlins have played this situation so terribly. I still say the Braves have an offer on the table, and the Marlins if they wanna do business will come back calling if they dont like any of the other offers.
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If the Braves were so desperate for upgrades that they were slinging around prospects the deal should have already happened.

It appears they are only interested in acquiring him on their own terms. I'm sure those terms would be too much for some and almost nothing for others. But they've certainly avoided spazzing out and giving the Marlins what they wanted.
 
Heyward said:
Regarding Haniger. Mariners apparently dont want to trade him, god knows why.

On Realmuto, the Marlins have played this situation so terribly. I still say the Braves have an offer on the table, and the Marlins if they wanna do business will come back calling if they dont like any of the other offers.
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Hanover is their Freddie, except he really IS on the cheap.

Marlin’s are idiots.
 
If I were AA, id back that brinks truck full of prospects up to the Mariners and let em pick through what they want for Mitch. Severe overpay would be fine with me.
 
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