2018 Offseason And Targets

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UNCBlue012 said:
not making us a better team, at least for the most part, is. Kimbrel makes the Nats much better. I wouldn’t care if they got Craig had we done more to make us better.
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He made the Braves better and kept the farm intact, waiting for the right deal before to splurge some of the prospects. Also added O'Day and Gausman which they'll have for a full year but that doesnt count as making them better.

Obviously having Nick as the RF'er isnt ideal, but Pollock had injury issues and cost a pick, Haniger/Peralta arent available, Cutch at that money hard pass, and the Braves werent going there for Harper. But we still have all our trade assets for a midseason trade if need be.
 
I kinda wonder where Kimbrel signs.

Twins have supposedly offered 3/45, Braves would be short-term, Philly too, no one seems to be going bonkers for him.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
So,

Trying to think outside the box a little...

Looks like the Cubs have no place for Tyler Chatwood and the $25.5M he's owed (12.5, 13) in 2019, 20. On MLBTR they speculate that the Cubs would have to eat "a lot" of what he's owed to move him.

So, I was thinking, what about a Braves/Cubs trade Adam Duvall going to the Cubs in exchange for Ian Happ and Chatwood with the Braves taking all Chatwood's money. Braves would likely have to include a prospect, but not a really good one, maybe a guy like Tucker Davidson.

Chatwood fits into the back of the Braves rotation with Teheran for 19 then takes Teheran's spot in 20. In 19 it allows the Braves to start the youngsters in the minors, assuming and allowing health to return and more experience to be gained. Happ replaces Duvall and "could" be the starting LF with Acuna sliding over to replace Markakis in RF pushing Markakis into a back up role on most days. Happ gives the Braves another young controllable OF with versatility and to get him all they would really have to do is be willing to spend money. if they don't get anything at all from Chatwood then they are likely still better off. If they get Teheran level performance from Chatwood then they are far ahead.

Assuming health, the Braves opening day rotation would be: Folty, Gausman, Newk, Teheran, Chatwood with Soroka, Fried, Touki, Wright, Wilson and Gohara sitting in AAA. Of course some won't be healthy.
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I don't really see a point in adding back of rotation pieces with all the depth we have. Even with Teheran leaving.
 
CrazyTrain said:
I don't really see a point in adding back of rotation pieces with all the depth we have. Even with Teheran leaving.
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I think the interesting part of HH's trade idea is Ian Happ not Chatwood. I would do the trade as he proposed. But I think the Cubs would want a bit more in return. I suspect they attach a fairly high valuation to Happ (as do I). I think players like Happ and Camargo that can play all over the place (and Happ has played both infield and outfield) have value that goes beyond the WAR projections. The hidden value being that having versatile players like that reduces the need to give ABs to replacement level players when injuries hit.
 
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Just discussing with a highly informed and knowledgeable Braves guy- they are very confident in the pitching and the kids. They are “loaded for bear if need be, but no need to blow the next decade like others in division- they will win the East with what they have already.”
 
Chatwood is a means to an end

He’s a reasonable 4-5 guy when healthy but not really needed by the Braves

However, Happ is a need and could be spent by the Cubs without hurting their 2019 team too much

If they move Chatwood they could play in the Kimbrel pool if they want or just trim payroll

I have to believe the Braves could handle a guy like Chatwood since people are throwing around short term Kimbrel deals and Keuchel options

With all the injury news coming out of camp, I don’t see having another veteran arm as being an issue for 2019 and in 2020 Chatwood takes Teheran’s place as the yearly veteran arm at the back of the rotation

Having said that, if the Cubs want much more than what I proposed then I’m out. It only makes sense to me to take on that money if Happ comes along at a steep discount - in other words Davidson + $25.5M for Happ since Chatwood is really unnecessary. Anything gained from Chatwood is gravy.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Chatwood is a means to an end

He’s a reasonable 4-5 guy when healthy but not really needed by the Braves

However, Happ is a need and could be spent by the Cubs without hurting their 2019 team too much

If they move Chatwood they could play in the Kimbrel pool if they want or just trim payroll

I have to believe the Braves could handle a guy like Chatwood since people are throwing around short term Kimbrel deals and Keuchel options

With all the injury news coming out of camp, I don’t see having another veteran arm as being an issue for 2019 and in 2020 Chatwood takes Teheran’s place as the yearly veteran arm at the back of the rotation

Having said that, if the Cubs want much more than what I proposed then I’m out. It only makes sense to me to take on that money if Happ comes along at a steep discount - in other words Davidson + $25.5M for Happ since Chatwood is really unnecessary. Anything gained from Chatwood is gravy.
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I'm not really sure what the Cubs plans are for their infield. Addison Russell still has 28 games to serve on his suspension. I don't think they will be undervaluing Happ.

Given that we have better pitching options, a trade for Chatwood is basically a trade for deadwood or dead weight or whatever you want to call it. Like acquiring Kazmir last year. Except when we traded for Kazmir it was with the idea that 2018 was a year to be discounted. Why take on a dead weight contract (that runs to 2020) when you expect to contend in both 2019 and 2020. I understand there is a potential plus from getting Happ (who I think is under control through 2023). So in effect you are trading wins in 2019 and 2020 for wins in 2021, 2022 and 2023. I'm ok doing that if we win the value proposition, but as I said I don't think Happ will come cheaply. I think the prospect the Cubs would want would be more someone like Wentz or Muller than Davidson.
 
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Hulavol said:
Just discussing with a highly informed and knowledgeable Braves guy- they are very confident in the pitching and the kids. They are “loaded for bear if need be, but no need to blow the next decade like others in division- they will win the East with what they have already.”
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IF this is the case, where the FO went wrong was making all the BS comments about shopping in any aisle and how we were going to have so much money to spend next offseason (comment made last offseason)

Just say we're commited to the kids and we want to see what we have before trading away any of our prospects or committing to long term contracts.

They went the polotician route and judging by social media pissed off most of their fanbase.
 
Chico said:
IF this is the case, where the FO went wrong was making all the BS comments about shopping in any aisle and how we were going to have so much money to spend next offseason (comment made last offseason)

Just say we're commited to the kids and we want to see what we have before trading away any of our prospects or committing to long term contracts.

They went the polotician route and judging by social media pissed off most of their fanbase.
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they could have secretly signed Donaldson at the time they did but kept it a secret until January. Then all the fannies would have been happy
 
Kazmir had no value and the Braves didn’t get a player like Happ in return

I don’t see it as trading wins from 2019 unless you think the money involved in 19&20 would buy more wins than Happ and Chatwood combined.

I probably would do a Wentz or Mueller and definitely an Allard instead of Davidson to get it done but not anything from the high end
 
Tapate50 said:
Apparently the Nats are refusing to go passed the luxury tax. Which would mean he could get like 4.5 million this year. Unless they backloaded the hell outta that thing he’s likely not going there

AND cost them their third and sixth round picks
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Luxury tax takes the AAV of the deal including the signing bonus spread out over the term of the guaranteed years, not the amount actually paid in each year. It is calcualted that was precisely to stop teams from moving money around as you suggested.

Having said that, if the Nats want Kimbrel they can go get him. There are many ways they can clear money, and they can afford to pay a bit of a penalty.
 
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Hulavol said:
Just discussing with a highly informed and knowledgeable Braves guy- they are very confident in the pitching and the kids. They are “loaded for bear if need be, but no need to blow the next decade like others in division- they will win the East with what they have already.”
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Your "highly informed and knowledgeable Braves guy" sounds like the typical message board homer.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Kazmir had no value and the Braves didn’t get a player like Happ in return
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Chatwood was a negative WAR player last year. And projects to have a FIP of around 5 this year. He has no value. Especially to a team that has guys like Fried, Soroka, Gohara, Wright, Wilson and Touki, all of whom project to have a FIP below 5. Chatwood is almost a pure salary dump at this point.
 
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IowaBrave14 said:
I believe this is a little incorrect. He grew up in Philly....but I believe that I have read more than once that he actually grew up a Yankees fan.
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he grew up a giants fan...football giants...maybe he could do a Michael Jordan and change sports
 
IowaBrave14 said:
I believe this is a little incorrect. He grew up in Philly....but I believe that I have read more than once that he actually grew up a Yankees fan.
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he grew up in south jersey about a half hour or so from philly. he definitely grew up a phillies fan tho.
 
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