2023 Misc Braves Talk

Carp said:
He was elite this year. When he went down, he was right up there with Hader for highest WAR among relievers.
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not even sure how to respond.. I mean 29innings... Don't get me wrong, I like uncle Jessie.. no idea why he has been gone this long when it was reported no fracture... It is like they were just stashing him away.. but I am never..never going to say he is elite.. especially off a 30 inning sample that had some smoke and mirrors if looking at his advance metrics..
 
bravesfanMatt said:
not even sure how to respond.. I mean 29innings... Don't get me wrong, I like uncle Jessie.. no idea why he has been gone this long when it was reported no fracture... It is like they were just stashing him away.. but I am never..never going to say he is elite.. especially off a 30 inning sample that had some smoke and mirrors if looking at his advance metrics..
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It definitely seems like Jesse could have come back a month ago if they needed his arm. I’m not sure if push comes to shove if the Braves are willing to DFA someone to make room for him. It feels like the Braves are taking their time to see if someone goes down with an injury before making that decision
 
Apparently Snit did an interview with 680 the fan and kinda danced around Cheerios being on the 25 man not being his idea. Seemed to indicate that he'd prefer one of the younger guys. I think leaving him in during that nightmare inning was a bit of a point proving to AA.
 
Tapate50 said:
Apparently Snit did an interview with 680 the fan and kinda danced around Cheerios being on the 25 man not being his idea. Seemed to indicate that he'd prefer one of the younger guys. I think leaving him in during that nightmare inning was a bit of a point proving to AA.
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I think AA has some kind of stat or metric that makes him think Cheerios is better than he is and AA is struggling coming to terms that it might just be wrong in this case.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
not even sure how to respond.. I mean 29innings... Don't get me wrong, I like uncle Jessie.. no idea why he has been gone this long when it was reported no fracture... It is like they were just stashing him away.. but I am never..never going to say he is elite.. especially off a 30 inning sample that had some smoke and mirrors if looking at his advance metrics..
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1.4 bWAR through 29 innings. At the time I believe only Hader had a higher bWAR. And advance metrics? You mean like his FIP of 2.47? How about his wOBA of .259?

I did not say he was an elite reliever. I said he was having an elite season. There is a difference. I would not categorize Luis Arraez as a great hitter. Nevertheless, he is having a great season. See how that works?
 
Carp said:
1.4 bWAR through 29 innings. At the time I believe only Hader had a higher bWAR. And advance metrics? You mean like his FIP of 2.47? How about his wOBA of .259?

I did not say he was an elite reliever. I said he was having an elite season. There is a difference. I would not categorize Luis Arraez as a great hitter. Nevertheless, he is having a great season. See how that works?
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your statement was very ambiguous then.. because when you say some is an elite arm, then in fact you are implying that Chavez is elite. When you say someone is having an elite year then that is different.. CJ had an elite year.. he wasn't an elite hitter.. So I wouldn't say, the Braves don't have any elite hitters this year except for CJ.. because that would imply he was and will continue to be an elite hitter. See how that works?
 
bravesfanMatt said:
your statement was very ambiguous then.. because when you say some is an elite arm, then in fact you are implying that Chavez is elite. When you say someone is having an elite year then that is different.. CJ had an elite year.. he wasn't an elite hitter.. So I wouldn't say, the Braves don't have any elite hitters this year except for CJ.. because that would imply he was and will continue to be an elite hitter. See how that works?
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That's why I categorized it when I said "this year."

But since you seem to want to continue this senseless debate, Chavez is currently 28th among all relievers in ERA since the start of the 2021 season (minimum 120 innings pitched). He's 39th in fWAR, one spot behind some guy named Aroldis Chapman. And he's likely higher in those rankings in bWAR but I don't know of any way to search that information on BR. Anyway you cut it, he's been a great reliever over this time for us. I suppose next you'll want to argue the semantics of term "elite."

Also, CJ didn't have an elite year at any point. He had a good year buoyed by an unsustainable BABIP. But even then, he only had an .816 OPS and 2.5 bWAR.
 
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Carp said:
That's why I categorized it when I said "this year."

But since you seem to want to continue this senseless debate, Chavez is currently 28th among all relievers in ERA since the start of the 2021 season (minimum 120 innings pitched). He's 39th in fWAR, one spot behind some guy named Aroldis Chapman. And he's likely higher in those rankings in bWAR but I don't know of any way to search that information on BR. Anyway you cut it, he's been a great reliever over this time for us. I suppose next you'll want to argue the semantics of term "elite."

Also, CJ didn't have an elite year at any point. He had a good year buoyed by an unsustainable BABIP. But even then, he only had an .816 OPS and 2.5 bWAR.
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Phillies fans would get so horny if Bohm could have that type of year.
 
Carp said:
That's why I categorized it when I said "this year."

But since you seem to want to continue this senseless debate, Chavez is currently 28th among all relievers in ERA since the start of the 2021 season (minimum 120 innings pitched). He's 39th in fWAR, one spot behind some guy named Aroldis Chapman. And he's likely higher in those rankings in bWAR but I don't know of any way to search that information on BR. Anyway you cut it, he's been a great reliever over this time for us. I suppose next you'll want to argue the semantics of term "elite."

Also, CJ didn't have an elite year at any point. He had a good year buoyed by an unsustainable BABIP. But even then, he only had an .816 OPS and 2.5 bWAR.
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which is why I said your phrasing was ambiguous.. I can let you google that term.. saying we don't have an elite BP arm this year except for Jesse is not the same as saying Jesse has been an elite bp arm this year. that is the only reason I responded to your post.. I personally don't think Jesse is elite, not sure the org does either since he doesn't get the 7/8/9 typically.. If you do then just own it.. don't change your stance because I said something.

Oh and if you want to say he has 2.9 War since 2021.. then you can't say we don't have elite BP arms this year since we have AJ and Riggy both have the same or more war than Uncle Jesse.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
which is why I said your phrasing was ambiguous.. I can let you google that term.. saying we don't have an elite BP arm this year except for Jesse is not the same as saying Jesse has been an elite bp arm this year. that is the only reason I responded to your post.. I personally don't think Jesse is elite, not sure the org does either since he doesn't get the 7/8/9 typically.. If you do then just own it.. don't change your stance because I said something.

Oh and if you want to say he has 2.9 War since 2021.. then you can't say we don't have elite BP arms this year since we have AJ and Riggy both have the same or more war than Uncle Jesse.
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Except it literally IS saying the very same thing. I don't know what is ambiguous about that statement when I literally said "this year." I'm sorry you're reading comprehension is so poor.

And the point about his production since 2021 is to point out that his 2023 production isn't super flukey either, as you insinuated earlier with your 29 innings comment. He's genuinely been a very good reliever over this time frame, especially in his time spent with us.
 
Carp said:
Except it literally IS saying the very same thing. I don't know what is ambiguous about that statement when I literally said "this year." I'm sorry you're reading comprehension is so poor.

And the point about his production since 2021 is to point out that his 2023 production isn't super flukey either, as you insinuated earlier with your 29 innings comment. He's genuinely been a very good reliever over this time frame, especially in his time spent with us.
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Let’s just be happy that Burkes isn’t seriously injured.
 
Carp said:
Except it literally IS saying the very same thing. I don't know what is ambiguous about that statement when I literally said "this year." I'm sorry you're reading comprehension is so poor.

And the point about his production since 2021 is to point out that his 2023 production isn't super flukey either, as you insinuated earlier with your 29 innings comment. He's genuinely been a very good reliever over this time frame, especially in his time spent with us.
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I am sorry you are struggling with the word ambiguous.. by saying we don't have an elite bp arm this year except for Jesse is basically saying Jesse is an elite bp arm and he is the only one we have this year... yes one could also take it as Jesse has been elite this year and he is the only one who has, but your phrasing is infact AMBIGUOUS.. I have a feeling more would see it as you refering to Jesse as elite and is our only elite pitcher we have in the bull pen... but that is left up to the person reading when you make ambiguous statements.

I am also not the one moving the goal posts back and forth.. I mentioned 29 innings after you said just this year.. then you went back to 2021.. and now arguing again just this year... stay on topic and keep consistant with your opinion of Jesse.. he is either elite JUST this year in your eyes or he is elite since 2021.. if the later then I assume you meant Jesse is elite and he is the only one in our pen this year. If he is only elite this year then I guess you meant Jesse has been elite this year and he has been the only one elite this year... at this point I am not sure you even know what you are trying to say..
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I am sorry you are struggling with the word ambiguous.. by saying we don't have an elite bp arm this year except for Jesse is basically saying Jesse is an elite bp arm and he is the only one we have this year... yes one could also take it as Jesse has been elite this year and he is the only one who has, but your phrasing is infact AMBIGUOUS.. I have a feeling more would see it as you refering to Jesse as elite and is our only elite pitcher we have in the bull pen... but that is left up to the person reading when you make ambiguous statements.

I am also not the one moving the goal posts back and forth.. I mentioned 29 innings after you said just this year.. then you went back to 2021.. and now arguing again just this year... stay on topic and keep consistant with your opinion of Jesse.. he is either elite JUST this year in your eyes or he is elite since 2021.. if the later then I assume you meant Jesse is elite and he is the only one in our pen this year. If he is only elite this year then I guess you meant Jesse has been elite this year and he has been the only one elite this year... at this point I am not sure you even know what you are trying to say..
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You literally questioned even the notion that he could be be elite this season until I posted that data showing how wrong you were.

Just take the L dude. You were wrong then and you're wrong now.
 
Carp said:
You literally questioned even the notion that he could be be elite this season until I posted that data showing how wrong you were.

Just take the L dude. You were wrong then and you're wrong now.
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What is my L.. I was never wrong.. Let me rehash this for you

you called Jesse elite
I said did you just refer to jesse as elite
you said based on this years sample he was almost as good as Hader
I said I am not calling him elite based off his small sample this year and that your OP was ambiguous because you made it seem like he was an elite BP guy
You then moved the goal post and cited him being elite since 21
which then made me wonder if you really do think he is just an elite BP guy or just been elite this year.. you are literally taking 2 stances and arguing for both of them..

I am simply asking which one is it.. is he elite and the only one we have this year.. or is he elite just this year and no one else has been elite this year. I made my stance. I don't think Jesse is an elite BP piece. I think he has had a very good season, but very small sample size.. I also think the org/twitner doesn't view him as elite based on how they use him or how slow and unforthcoming they have been with his return.. So if that is an "L" then I guess I will wear it.. I don't have to be right all the time, I grew up a long time ago.
 
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