2025-2026 offseason thread

[Metaphysicist]

Barry Bonds is the greatest defensive left fielder in history and its isn't close. He is not overrated.



Even among all outfielders, he trails only Andruw and Clemente:



At ages 30-33, 1995-1998--so just pre-"I'm mad about McGwire/Sosa and will do sterioids even harder than them"--he put up the following:

1995: +12
1996: +10
1997: +14
1998: +10

Those are fantastic defensive seasons, even if they do not match his Andruw-esque numbers from his early 20s.

In 1999 he was hurt, and then in 2000 he was the size of a house.

As Enscheff correctly notes, baserunning value is just very limited, even for good runners like Bonds (only about +5 WAR over his whole career). He only averaged +3 runs or so per year 95-98, though he had +8 (per bbref) in 1996 during his 40/40 year. In the hypothetical "good legs" scenario, adding that to his maintained defense, he could add 1.0-1.5 WAR added to his seasonal WAR total.

 

[MadduxFanII]

Barry Bonds is the greatest defensive left fielder in history and its isn't close. He is not overrated.

View attachment 736

Even among all outfielders, he trails only Andruw and Clemente:

View attachment 737

At ages 30-33, 1995-1998--so just pre-"I'm mad about McGwire/Sosa and will do sterioids even harder than them"--he put up the following:

1995: +12
1996: +10
1997: +14
1998: +10

Those are fantastic defensive seasons, even if they do not match his Andruw-esque numbers from his early 20s.

In 1999 he was hurt, and then in 2000 he was the size of a house.

As Enscheff correctly notes, baserunning value is just very limited, even for good runners like Bonds (only about +5 WAR over his whole career). He only averaged +3 runs or so per year 95-98, though he had +8 (per bbref) in 1996 during his 40/40 year. In the hypothetical "good legs" scenario, adding that to his maintained defense, he could add 1.0-1.5 WAR added to his seasonal WAR total.

Andruw, Heyward and Brian Jordan. Not bad.

 

[striker42]

Barry Bonds is the greatest defensive left fielder in history and its isn't close. He is not overrated.

View attachment 736

Even among all outfielders, he trails only Andruw and Clemente:

View attachment 737

At ages 30-33, 1995-1998--so just pre-"I'm mad about McGwire/Sosa and will do sterioids even harder than them"--he put up the following:

1995: +12
1996: +10
1997: +14
1998: +10

Those are fantastic defensive seasons, even if they do not match his Andruw-esque numbers from his early 20s.

In 1999 he was hurt, and then in 2000 he was the size of a house.

As Enscheff correctly notes, baserunning value is just very limited, even for good runners like Bonds (only about +5 WAR over his whole career). He only averaged +3 runs or so per year 95-98, though he had +8 (per bbref) in 1996 during his 40/40 year. In the hypothetical "good legs" scenario, adding that to his maintained defense, he could add 1.0-1.5 WAR added to his seasonal WAR total.

Didn't help him throw out Sid.

 

[CyYoung31]

Meta being a regular contributor again is exactly what 2026 needed.

 

[Metaphysicist]

Didn't help him throw out Sid.

This is a good point. These numbers don't include the playoffs, so he is missing the -96 WAR he earned by torching the Pirates' season on that play.

 

[Enscheff]

Barry Bonds is the greatest defensive left fielder in history and its isn't close. He is not overrated.

View attachment 736

Even among all outfielders, he trails only Andruw and Clemente:

View attachment 737

At ages 30-33, 1995-1998--so just pre-"I'm mad about McGwire/Sosa and will do sterioids even harder than them"--he put up the following:

1995: +12
1996: +10
1997: +14
1998: +10

Those are fantastic defensive seasons, even if they do not match his Andruw-esque numbers from his early 20s.

In 1999 he was hurt, and then in 2000 he was the size of a house.

As Enscheff correctly notes, baserunning value is just very limited, even for good runners like Bonds (only about +5 WAR over his whole career). He only averaged +3 runs or so per year 95-98, though he had +8 (per bbref) in 1996 during his 40/40 year. In the hypothetical "good legs" scenario, adding that to his maintained defense, he could add 1.0-1.5 WAR added to his seasonal WAR total.

This info about his defense is true. However, his best defensive seasons happened in the 80s. The question specifically asked about his defense, or “legs”, in the 90s, when he was already very mediocre.

I put zero stock in BRef defensive values, and thus bWAR.

So yes, his defense in the 90s was greatly overrated.

 

[Metaphysicist]

This info about his defense is true. However, his best defensive seasons happened in the 80s. The question specifically asked about his defense, or “legs”, in the 90s, when he was already very mediocre.

I put zero stock in BRef defensive values, and thus bWAR.

So yes, his defense in the 90s was greatly overrated.

FG and BBref both use the same defensive numbers, Total Zone, for the 90s. These are the exact same numbers in his Fangraphs WAR pre-2002. I have no idea what distinction you are making.

 

[Enscheff]

FG and BBref both use the same defensive numbers, Total Zone, for the 90s. These are the exact same numbers in his Fangraphs WAR pre-2002. I have no idea what distinction you are making.

What the…what?

It is very easy to compare BRef’s Rfield numbers you referenced to the Def numbers on FG and see they are not the same. It’s absurd to claim otherwise when it’s so trivial to look at both numbers.

According to FG, Bonds was very close to average overall defensively after 1990 following several seasons being elite in the late 80s and 1990. I’m not even sure what to discuss if someone can’t see obviously different numbers are different.

 

[Metaphysicist]

What the…what?

It is very easy to compare BRef’s Rfield numbers you referenced to the Def numbers on FG and see they are not the same. It’s absurd to claim otherwise when it’s so trivial to look at both numbers.

According to FG, Bonds was very close to average overall defensively after 1990 following several seasons being elite in the late 80s and 1990. I’m not even sure what to discuss if someone can’t see obviously different numbers are different.

Yes I agree, the stat pages are there for all to look at, and they are very easy to read.

BRef:



Fangraphs:



I believe you are just looking at the "Defense" column, which is a runs-based equivalent to "dWAR" on BRef. These stats include a positional adjustment, not just fielding metrics; thus his +12 in 1995 gets a -6.5 for being a left fielder, resulting in a 5.5. The purpose is to be able to compare between position, not intra position. Being "average" in "Defense/dWAR" means having the defensive value of a league average player at any position, which is pretty good for a leftfielder.