Acuna to AAA

nsacpi said:
which drafts do you consider the Wren drafts
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08-14. In that time, the productive MLB players we got were as follows:
Simmons
Drury
Wood
Kimbrel
Gattis
Minor (minor success)
Is there anyone I'm missing? I don't see how his drafting could be considered even mildly successful. Seven years of poor drafting will very obviously hurt a franchise. Some things remain to be seen on '13 and '14 drafts, but I wonder what the Braves' total WAR is from 08-14 drafts compared to other teams.
 
Asuna he's in MLB with the big club the better and Acuna be more happy about this move. Acuna matata people.
 
Super said:
08-14. In that time, the productive MLB players we got were as follows:
Simmons
Drury
Wood
Kimbrel
Gattis
Minor (minor success)
Is there anyone I'm missing? I don't see how his drafting could be considered even mildly successful. Seven years of poor drafting will very obviously hurt a franchise. Some things remain to be seen on '13 and '14 drafts, but I wonder what the Braves' total WAR is from 08-14 drafts compared to other teams.
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I will note the following. We did not have a first round pick in 2008 (first pick was in the supplemental round), no second round pick in 2009, no first round pick in 2010 (first pick was in the supplemental round), picked 28th in 2011, picked 21st in 2012, picked 31st in the compensatory round in 2013, and picked 32nd in the compensatory in 2014.

I don't believe that our record was brilliant during those drafts. But I suspect an analysis that took into account the position where we were picking would reveal that it was not so bad.

With respect to the last three drafts (post Wren), we picked much earlier. It remains to be seen how it turns out. I think any analysis would again have to take into account draft position, # of early picks etc. I liked out 2015 draft (2 first round picks, 6 in the first 3 rounds) very much. Much less impressed by our 2016 draft (5 picks in the first 3 rounds including the #3 in the first round). I think 2017 will be somewhere in between.
 
nsacpi said:
I will note the following. We did not have a first round pick in 2008 (first pick was in the supplemental round), no second round pick in 2009, no first round pick in 2010 (first pick was in the supplemental round), picked 28th in 2011, picked 21st in 2012, picked 31st in the compensatory round in 2013, and picked 32nd in the compensatory in 2014.

I don't believe that our record was brilliant during those drafts. But I suspect an analysis that took into account the position where we were picking would reveal that it was not so bad.

With respect to the last three drafts (post Wren), we picked much earlier. It remains to be seen how it turns out. I think any analysis would again have to take into account draft position, # of early picks etc. I liked out 2015 draft very much. Much less impressed by our 2016 draft. I think 2017 will be somewhere in between.
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Besides 2008, not having a 1st rounder is also the responsibility of the GM, however. And while we had later draft picks because guys like Freeman and Heyward were doing work, to get basically no one worthwhile in the 1st round for seven years is bad. I don't know how it could be sliced any other way. In addition, he made pretty much one good trade (Upton). The rest were pretty inconsequential, however. And all of the FA signings were bad. So thankfully the international side found some guys.
 
Super said:
Besides 2008, not having a 1st rounder is also the responsibility of the GM, however. And while we had later draft picks because guys like Freeman and Heyward were doing work, to get basically no one worthwhile in the 1st round for seven years is bad. I don't know how it could be sliced any other way. In addition, he made pretty much one good trade (Upton). The rest were pretty inconsequential, however. And all of the FA signings were bad. So thankfully the international side found some guys.
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hopefully the current regime will have some winning teams and low draft positions...we'll see how they do
 
nsacpi said:
hopefully the current regime will have some winning teams and low draft positions...we'll see how they do
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They took Soroka late in the 1st already. He hasn't done anything yet, but he looks better than about any Wren 1st round pick already.
When you produce very little on 3/4s of the draft, FA signings, trades, and INTFA, your organization isn't going to age well.
 
Wren didn't draft very well... but like was stated, didn't have great draft positions.

Regardless, he oversaw one of the winningest ball clubs in all MLB. A team which had so much talent that Coppy was able to use them re-stock our system overnight.
 
sturg33 said:
Wren didn't draft very well... but like was stated, didn't have great draft positions.

Regardless, he oversaw one of the winningest ball clubs in all MLB. A team which had so much talent that Coppy was able to use them re-stock our system overnight.
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That winning was driven by little he actually did, though. What players, outside of Upton, did he acquire that drove those wins? Heyward and Freeman were 07 guys. His only worthwhile trade was Upton. FA signings were really bad, IIRC. He didn't compile talent.
 
Super said:
Right. That has to be held against him, not a defense because he didn't have a 1st rounder.
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i thought the discussion was about drafting success....if it is about the overall performance of the front office I would go with won-loss record
 
Super said:
They took Soroka late in the 1st already. He hasn't done anything yet, but he looks better than about any Wren 1st round pick already.
When you produce very little on 3/4s of the draft, FA signings, trades, and INTFA, your organization isn't going to age well.
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well if we are to cherry pick two can play this game...i see your Soroka late first round and raise you a Simmons second round
 
Super said:
That winning was driven by little he actually did, though. What players, outside of Upton, did he acquire that drove those wins? Heyward and Freeman were 07 guys. His only worthwhile trade was Upton. FA signings were really bad, IIRC. He didn't compile talent.
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Well,

- he acquired Upton who was traded for gohara and Fried
- he drafted simmons who was traded for Newcomb
- he drafted Gattis who was traded for Folty
- he drafted Wood who was traded for... nvm
- he drafted Kimbrel who was traded for Wisler

- Our best two prospects we have today were acquired by Wren

I also am confident he was heavily involved in the decision making process prior to 2008
 
Super said:
That winning was driven by little he actually did, though. What players, outside of Upton, did he acquire that drove those wins? Heyward and Freeman were 07 guys. His only worthwhile trade was Upton. FA signings were really bad, IIRC. He didn't compile talent.
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So should the future Braves success be credited to Wren when Albies and Acuna are tearing up the league plus the extension of Freeman?
 
sturg33 said:
Well,

- he acquired Upton who was traded for gohara and Fried
- he drafted simmons who was traded for Newcomb
- he drafted Gattis who was traded for Folty
- he drafted Wood who was traded for... nvm
- he drafted Kimbrel who was traded for Wisler

- Our best two prospects we have today were acquired by Wren


I also am confident he was heavily involved in the decision making process prior to 2008
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It would be unfair to not give Wren any credit for what happened prior to 2008 while giving Coppy credit for anything prior to 2016.
 
In 2010 they won 91 games. Driven by McCann, Prado, Heyward, Hudson, Hanson, Wagner. One of those guys (Wagner) was a Wren get.

89 in 2011. McCann, Freeman, Uggla, Chipper, Prado, Heyward, Hudson, Jurrjens, Beachy, Hanson, Kimbrel. I'd give him credit for Uggla, Jurrjens (?), Beachy, and Kimbrel.

I don't have time at the moment to go year-by-year, but it's not like he brought in a ton of top talent and was the major reason those teams won games for like 4 years.
 
sturg33 said:
Well,

- he acquired Upton who was traded for gohara and Fried
- he drafted simmons who was traded for Newcomb
- he drafted Gattis who was traded for Folty
- he drafted Wood who was traded for... nvm
- he drafted Kimbrel who was traded for Wisler

- Our best two prospects we have today were acquired by Wren

I also am confident he was heavily involved in the decision making process prior to 2008
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By the way, those 5 guys listed above are on pace for about 24 fWAR this year. Amazing group of talent that Wren got us and Coppy leveraged (for an unimpressive return, to be honest)
 
nsacpi said:
i thought the discussion was about drafting success....if it is about the overall performance of the front office I would go with won-loss record
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You defended his drafting by saying he didn't have a 1st rounder in some years, but that was because of a terrible decision he made. He took a a 42-year old Tom Glavine for 8 starts as a 1st round pick.
 
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