Another focus on pitching in the offseason...This one may be real though

Wasn't half the point of the pitching-centric re-build that we would avoid the necessity of having to give tens of millions of dollars to pitchers like Lance Lynn and Alex Cobb?
 
MadduxFanII said:
Wasn't half the point of the pitching-centric re-build that we would avoid the necessity of having to give tens of millions of dollars to pitchers like Lance Lynn and Alex Cobb?
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I think the point of it was to avoid the necessity of having to pay three or four of them.

Coming up with five in-house pitching options good enough to win championships is pretty unlikely.
 
bravesguy said:
Here is the big flaw with this approach...If Lynn, Cobb, and Julio are in the rotation, that leaves 2 slots...lets say Folty gets one. You have 1 slot in the rotation to house Newk, Sims, Gohara, Fried, with possible Wright, Soroka & Allard coming fast.

I can see leaving Soroka & Allard at AAA for the year...no one would complain.
I can see leaving Wright, Gohara, Fried in AAA for part of the year...they have not really proven themselves yet.
I CAN NOT see leaving Newk & Sims in AAA. They have both spent plenty of time there and have had their shot in MLB already.

So before you can go your route, you have to trade or cut all but one of Newk, Sims & Blair and maybe a Withrow also.

I think they look at Colorado this year and do a Folty, Teheran, Newk, Sims, and winner of Gohara & Fried in spring training rotation. By June they trade (or injury) one of Folty, Teheran, & Sims and bring up the loser or Gohara & Fried.
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You don't "have to trade or cut" those guys but they likely wouldn't have spots in the rotation, you are correct. The thing is, counting on them to suddenly be better than they've shown themselves to be to this point is what does deserve to get people fired.

Here's the problem with falling in love with all these prospects and having Braves'-colored glasses...

1.) Without a bounceback, Julio is a #3 at best.
2.) Without a step forward, Folty is a #3 at best.
3.) If he's kept, Dickey is a #3 at best.
4.) Unless he throws more quality strikes, Newcomb is a #3/#4 at best.
5.) Sims has actually been a little better than most expected, but he's also a #3/#4 at best.
6.) Neither Blair nor Withrow have given ANY indication that they're ever going to be good enough to be a contributing piece of an MLB rotation.

The big "flaw" as you mention would be going into next season with the pieces you have now and EXPECTING to improve on this season's results. If the organization is actually going to commit to rebuilding from within, that's absolutely fine - and I don't think many people HERE (not your "average fan", mind you) would have a problem with that. The point that many have made that the brass hasn't completely committed to blowing it all up is valid, but also expects patience from the always fickle Atlanta fanbase - and unfortunately that fanbase has never shown that it has any (at least since the dark days of the 1970s and 1980s). We simply don't KNOW that any of Gohara, Wright, Allard, or whomever is a "can't-miss" top of the rotation SP, and trying to keep spots open for them is a little beyond ridiculous.

Could Folty finally develop something more than a .10 head to go along with that million dollar arm? Sure - he could. Could Newcomb suddenly start throwing lots of quality strikes even though he never has at any other level? Sure - he could. Could Julio and/or Fried bounceback? Sure - they could. Unless those things happen, the Braves have a rotation full of league average or below starting Pitchers. That's not a problem if your fans are willing to be patient and keep their eyes on the big picture, but that hasn't been the case in these parts for a long time.

The brass has the terribly unenviable task of trying to keep the locals interested and able to point to obvious improvement to the on-field product without giving away any of the future. If they hold onto all the arms, the growing pains are going to continue for several years - meaning those who lobbied to trade Freeman and Julio should have been listened to because you won't see a true contender here before the end of their contracts.
 
Personally, I don't think trying to be .500 in the short term and being a contender in the long term are necessarily conflicting goals.

As long as you aren't cluttering the 2020 payroll and beyond with contracts you are likely to regret, I think almost anything is game.

While I'm not totally against acquiring long term controllable assets at cheaper prices now, I just don't think that is likely to happen in Free Agency. But I don't really expect to get a Chris Archer without giving up something that would hurt either.
 
Curious about how familiar people really are with Gohara, especially when he's referred to as some kind of long term solution as a starter.
 
chop2chip said:
Mike Leake at three years for $36 million would have been an excellent start to fixing the rotation.
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I think this means they offer Lynn a QO at least if not a contract. I'd take him off the 2018 wish list.

The Rays are too cheap to offer Cobb a QO
 
clvclv said:
Makes little difference - use whatever number you like. They're likely to both fall in the 3/$36 million to 3/$45 million range. Assuming you're not spending big money on a 3B like Moustakas, signing both wouldn't increase payroll over what it was at the beginning of 2017.

The question was "would you be tempted to sign both to substantially upgrade the rotation to lessen the reliance on the young pitching?"
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Lynn is projected to sign for 5/75, and maybe as high as $90M. Cobb should also easily surpass 3/45.
 
Enscheff said:
Lynn is projected to sign for 5/75, and maybe as high as $90M. Cobb should also easily surpass 3/45.

As usual, you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Was it really necessary for you to post the last line, really? What gain outside of pumping your overly inflated ego does that accomplish? I am curious. I see these backhanded-ass comments all the time from you.

You create a million dollar awesome post until you say something like this and it ruins it. People don't remember what you posted but the last line most of the time because that is what they are left with an impression of you, not of your brilliance but your total lack of respect and being a jerk.

Way to go asshole. Now I forgot what brilliant post you've created because of that last line which is a lasting impression of what a douchebag you really are.

Million dollar head for stats and putting it in a post and a ten cent bulbous ego with no sense of decorum whatsoever.
 
AerchAngel said:
Was it really necessary for you to post the last line, really? What gain outside of pumping your overly inflated ego does that accomplish? I am curious. I see these backhanded-ass comments all the time from you.

You create a million dollar awesome post until you say something like this and it ruins it. People don't remember what you posted but the last line most of the time because that is what they are left with an impression of you, not of your brilliance but your total lack of respect and being a jerk.

Way to go asshole. Now I forgot what brilliant post you've created because of that last line which is a lasting impression of what a douchebag you really are.

Million dollar head for stats and putting it in a post and a ten cent bulbous ego with no sense of decorum whatsoever.
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Hey asswipe, I edited the post. Are you pleased as punch now?
 
They can keep Dickey for Cheap.
They have Folty.
They have Tehran.
They have Newcombe.
They have Sims.

Gohara looks like a guy they expect to be up next year. Allard and Soroka look like guys up in 18 or 19. Wright is up in 18 or 19. Fried was called up for some reason.....

I just don't get signing a pitcher. I could see us doing a pillow deal if someone wanted to do a one year deal to reestablish value. Yes I know we did a one year deal with Colon and it sucked. But I still think we should be signing guys to 1-2 years at most.

I get that rotation we have now isn't great. But at least there is upside on everyone but Dickey and you have cheap options behind them. I could watch a rotation with young talent get beat around some as they learn their way. I don't want to watch 2 Jamie Garcias eat up more money.

What I think is going to happen is that they are going to swing a monster deal for a Fulmer type guy. I will probably hate it.
 
Enscheff said:
Leake will be interesting to follow. I'm willing to bet he goes the way most 3-4 year contracts for pitchers in their 30s go...not well.
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I'm a bit more optimistic in Leake's case. His bread and butter has always been his elite athleticism, not necessarily his stuff. I think he may age better than another pitcher entering his 30's.
 
Enscheff said:
Hey asswipe, I edited the post. Are you pleased as punch now?
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yeah.

Look Douche you do post some awesome stuff, but the grade school ad lib cracks just makes it look bad. Stick with what you do best and there is not many that can do what you do. I torment people in the other part of the forum because I am a douchebag and been this way for ages but I don't post awesome stuff like you do and I can get away with being one. Everyone reads your stuff, act like your post minus the cracks then you won't receive a lot of beef.

Keep posting minus the cracks and I will keep reading them.
 
AerchAngel said:
yeah.

Look Douche you do post some awesome stuff, but the grade school ad lib cracks just makes it look bad. Stick with what you do best and there is not many that can do what you do. I torment people in the other part of the forum because I am a douchebag and been this way for ages but I don't post awesome stuff like you do and I can get away with being one. Everyone reads your stuff, act like your post minus the cracks then you won't receive a lot of beef.

Keep posting minus the cracks and I will keep reading them.
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Sounds good clown.
 
We have a bunch of players on the 40 man that we risk losing. I expect several trades, with at least one of them being a pretty major trade. I would assume it will likely be for a pitcher since that is what they have been rumored to be after for about a year now.
 
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