Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Given Wren's bad drafting in his past couple drafts once he got fired, dont think it's fair to assume he drafts the players Coppy did.
Around MLB 2017
- Thread starter mossy
- Start date
Given Wren's bad drafting in his past couple drafts once he got fired, dont think it's fair to assume he drafts the players Coppy did.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Actually we would have Folty in both scenarios since I thought it made sense to trade Gattis to an AL team.
Countered by the fact that they may still do the Olivera trade as a "win now" move for 3B. Maybe they flip Gattis for an OFer or a guy at 3B in this sceanrio. Who knows. I wanted to stick with 1:1 comps.
I think 50+ wins right now is a fair estimate for this alternate universe.
So our farm system would look something like this:
1. Acuna
2. Albies
3. Allard
4. Soroka
5. Bryse Wilson
and then whatever we got in the Kimbrel deal and the mid-1st and compensatory picks, and then very little behind that.
And our MLB roster would look something like this in terms of young assets:
1B: Freeman
2B: Peraza
SS: Simmons
3B: Camargo
SP: Teheran
SP: Wood
SP: Folty
So that's basically what we'd be looking at. It's interesting, but I'm still taking where we are now. I like Inciarte, Dansby, Anderson/Wentz/Muller, Gohara, Newcomb, Fried, Touki, Jackson, and the international signings over Wood, Simmons, Peraza, a better Kimbrel return, and the compensatory picks. Some may disagree, but I like where we are now.
You're right, Wren probably doesn't draft 5 pitchers with those selections.
Add that as another plus for this alternate reality Braves franchise.
We wouldn't still have Kimbrel.
Lulz if you think Wren wasn't about to draft pitchers. The only difference is they wouldn't be nearly as talented.
I was talking about the "no rebuild" scenario.
I don't see the point in suggesting another "half rebuild" scenario.
I gladly take my proposed "no rebuild" scenario over what we are seeing now.
Managuarantano's Volunteers
<B><I>The Artist Formally Known as <P>Ventura's St
Wasn't aware aware trading Mark Teixeira for Casey Kotchman was a win now move...or anything other than playoff killing. Practically Aybar alone for Simmons level
The difference between Wren and Epstein is that Epstein sacrifices the future for pieces he can actually use to win championships.
Also, let me go count all the rings Wren has.
LOL that's rich. Epstein got to actually rebuild with both the Cubs and BoSox. Wren never had that opportunity.
Oh, and let's talk about payroll available in Boston, Chicago and Atlanta. How many $150M+ FAs did Wren get to buy?
Go count the flags hanging at SunTrust under Coppy while you're out counting things.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Yeah more Jason Hursh's sounds exciting!!!!!!!!!!
Southcack77
Well-known member
The Cubs system isn't as bad as the Braves system was and the Cubs core is much more intact than the Braves core was.
The Braves sold because they couldn't afford to resign Upton and Heyward or acquire any pitching and that was happening in one season.
The Cubs have really good looking core through 2020 at least with ample money to spend to address weaknesses.
Wren was criticized, and to some degree unfairly, because the Braves didn't have a winning MLB core, didn't have any real chance to improve much from within, and were financially strapped due to a series of bad contract decisions that made it impossible for the Braves to properly allocate their limited resources.
But Wren got there through trying to deliver what his superiors wanted, which was continual contention without selling or rebuilding.
It's pretty hilarious that you're supporting Wren. Your hatred of Coppy has caused you to back someone who believes essentially none of the things you believe.
Southcack77
Well-known member
My objection is to the pithy statement trying to compare the Cubs right now to the Braves in 2014. The Cubs have the young core of a championship team locked up through 2020 with no bad contracts hanging over them and no real limits to the payroll. They also have almost all of their recent MLB draft picks and the opportunity to add to that going forward. They are in great shape.
In 2014, the Braves had allocated 33% of their 2015 payroll to BJ Upton, Dan Uggla, and Chris Johnson. The only player in their system at the time who has thus far turned out to be a consistent starter is Jose Peraza, and its somewhat questionable whether he would be a starter for a team that wasn't tanking.
Saying Wren isn't as bad as folks are making him out to be doesn't mean I'm supporting him.
I just find it funny that folks use "facts" to diminish what Wren did that could easily be lobbed on Coppy too. Or they leave out very improtant pieces of info when they compare Wren to Theo.
I don't care about Wren, but I do care about being factually accurate.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Coppy is far from perfect, and there's absolutely no given Wren drafts who Coppy did.
Here's Wren's top 5 picks in his last 3 drafts but yeah im sure he drafts the same exact players Coppy did and makes the same exact trades as well rolls eyes.
2014: Chris Diaz, Chad Sobotka, Max Povse, Garrett Fulenchek, Braxton Davidson.
2013: Jason Hursh, Victor Caratini, Carlos Salazar, Tyler Murphy, Mikey Reynolds.
2012: Lucas Sims, Alex Wood, Bryan De La Rosa, Justin Black, Blake Brown.
Bunch of studs right here minus Wood.
To Coppy's last 3 drafts.
2017: Kyle Wright, Drew Waters, Freddy Tarnok, Troy Bacon, Bruce Zimmerman.
2016: Ian Anderson, Kyle Muller, Joey Wentz, Drew Harrington, Brett Cumberland, and Bryse Wilson in the 6th who is rising up prospect rankings.
2015: Koby Allard, Mike Soroka, Austin Riley, Lucas Herbert, AJ Minter, and Wiegel before TJ was poised to come up.
Yes Coppy has had higher picks but absolutely no way based off Wren's drafting history does he take the same guys just because i can say he does. Wren was not a good drafter, that was proven with how bad the farm system was when he got fired.
I dont even see how you can defend Wren. He gutted the farm system and comparing the Theo situation. Cubs have their core position players up through at least 2020. Braves didnt have that situation, Cubs have at least a top 3 of Lester, Hendricks, and Quintana going forward and im sure they'll sign a FA SP this winter with Lackey and Arrieta likely gone.
Here's Wren's top 5 picks in his last 3 drafts but yeah im sure he drafts the same exact players Coppy did and makes the same exact trades as well rolls eyes.
2014: Chris Diaz, Chad Sobotka, Max Povse, Garrett Fulenchek, Braxton Davidson.
2013: Jason Hursh, Victor Caratini, Carlos Salazar, Tyler Murphy, Mikey Reynolds.
2012: Lucas Sims, Alex Wood, Bryan De La Rosa, Justin Black, Blake Brown.
Bunch of studs right here minus Wood.
To Coppy's last 3 drafts.
2017: Kyle Wright, Drew Waters, Freddy Tarnok, Troy Bacon, Bruce Zimmerman.
2016: Ian Anderson, Kyle Muller, Joey Wentz, Drew Harrington, Brett Cumberland, and Bryse Wilson in the 6th who is rising up prospect rankings.
2015: Koby Allard, Mike Soroka, Austin Riley, Lucas Herbert, AJ Minter, and Wiegel before TJ was poised to come up.
Yes Coppy has had higher picks but absolutely no way based off Wren's drafting history does he take the same guys just because i can say he does. Wren was not a good drafter, that was proven with how bad the farm system was when he got fired.
I dont even see how you can defend Wren. He gutted the farm system and comparing the Theo situation. Cubs have their core position players up through at least 2020. Braves didnt have that situation, Cubs have at least a top 3 of Lester, Hendricks, and Quintana going forward and im sure they'll sign a FA SP this winter with Lackey and Arrieta likely gone.
True, but also failing to keep the farm system stocked falls entirely on Wren.
How do you figure?
Regardless of how you think the new FO has done, the farm system at the time of Wren's departure was one of the worst in baseball. That is both a terrible mismanagement of assets and a failure to develop minor league talent. And he was handed, at worst, a top 5 farm when he originally took over.
Southcack77
Well-known member
I think the scenario assumes that Wren still got fired, but the new front office decided to say the hell with it and try and win in 2015. So they assume a front office that didn't make a bunch of trades would approach the draft the same way and draft the same players.
Oddly in this scenario the front office still does make some rebuilding trades anyway.
Lol, you are insane if you think the two teams were even remotely similar.
The Braves had Freeman, Simmons, Kimbrel, Gattis, JT, and Wood as the only stars under long term control. That's 6 players. And they had literally no one else in the minors that was close, save Pereza I guess (what an amazing talent he turned out to be).
Epstein also drafted, acquired via trade, and developed pretty much all his young, controllable talent as well, whereas Wren inherited the majority of his talent.
No where even in the galaxy of being similar.