Around the League: 2017 offseason edition / 2018 Season

thewupk said:
He's better than what we have? In the end it doesn't matter much.
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Is he? I think I would rather have the younger unknown with a cannon arm and making league minimum over spending millions on a guy who wouldn't produce much more if more at all.

We might be broke, I don't know and don't care really.. but I think this is more about not wanting to spend millions on a redundant player who is older than the version you already have.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Is he? I think I would rather have the younger unknown with a cannon arm and making league minimum over spending millions on a guy who wouldn't produce much more if more at all.

We might be broke, I don't know and don't care really.. but I think this is more about not wanting to spend millions on a redundant player who is older than the version you already have.
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Can't wait for Camargo to post a 2.5 WAR
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Is he? I think I would rather have the younger unknown with a cannon arm and making league minimum over spending millions on a guy who wouldn't produce much more if more at all.

We might be broke, I don't know and don't care really.. but I think this is more about not wanting to spend millions on a redundant player who is older than the version you already have.
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yup.
i soured on the idea of nunez as i saw it as pointless.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Is he? I think I would rather have the younger unknown with a cannon arm and making league minimum over spending millions on a guy who wouldn't produce much more if more at all.

We might be broke, I don't know and don't care really.. but I think this is more about not wanting to spend millions on a redundant player who is older than the version you already have.
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I mean if you think Camargo and/or Ruiz is a player capable of putting up 2+ WAR and being an average player then it's pointless to sign Nunez. I personally don't think that's going to happen but hopefully I'm wrong.
 
thewupk said:
I mean if you think Camargo and/or Ruiz is a player capable of putting up 2+ WAR and being an average player then it's pointless to sign Nunez. I personally don't think that's going to happen but hopefully I'm wrong.
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I've been in favor of a veteran addition all along at 3B - not so much because I don't think Camargo will be OK, but because I'm not a believer in Ruiz. If Dansby happens to struggle badly, we're going to have a black hole at one of the two spots on the left side since you're looking at Culberson playing a lot if you don't slide Johan back. I don't think there's much chance at all that we see Riley prior to 2019 even if he explodes.

The reason Nunez made so much sense is that there's little doubt that he'd be an upgrade - even if a minor one - that wouldn't really be getting in anyone's way and he'd be a really nice trade piece at the deadline assuming the Braves aren't within shouting distance of the second wildcard spot and AA chooses to pull the plug.
 
clvclv said:
I've been in favor of a veteran addition all along at 3B - not so much because I don't think Camargo will be OK, but because I'm not a believer in Ruiz. If Dansby happens to struggle badly, we're going to have a black hole at one of the two spots on the left side since you're looking at Culberson playing a lot if you don't slide Johan back. I don't think there's much chance at all that we see Riley prior to 2019 even if he explodes.

The reason Nunez made so much sense is that there's little doubt that he'd be an upgrade - even if a minor one - that wouldn't really be getting in anyone's way and he'd be a really nice trade piece at the deadline assuming the Braves aren't within shouting distance of the second wildcard spot and AA chooses to pull the plug.
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I still would like some insurance on the left side of the infield. We are going into the season with two unproven players as our starters: Swanson and Camargo. It would be nice to have someone like Brandon Phillips around in case one of those two falls on his face.
 
clvclv said:
I've been in favor of a veteran addition all along at 3B - not so much because I don't think Camargo will be OK, but because I'm not a believer in Ruiz. If Dansby happens to struggle badly, we're going to have a black hole at one of the two spots on the left side since you're looking at Culberson playing a lot if you don't slide Johan back. I don't think there's much chance at all that we see Riley prior to 2019 even if he explodes.

The reason Nunez made so much sense is that there's little doubt that he'd be an upgrade - even if a minor one - that wouldn't really be getting in anyone's way and he'd be a really nice trade piece at the deadline assuming the Braves aren't within shouting distance of the second wildcard spot and AA chooses to pull the plug.
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These are my thoughts as well. Not signing Nunez doesn't mean much because I'm not that optimistic about how the season is going to unfold, but (and I don't know this for certain) he would likely have been a low-cost option on what appears will be a one-year deal who would have provided positional flexibility on the left side of the infield and in left field. If the team doesn't contend, he's always movable at the deadline.

As he was ascending through the minors, I was one of the few on this board who consistently promoted Camargo's chances, but even I don't see him as being a long-term solution at 3B. I could be wrong. He has developed physically, but he appears to be a ball-in-play guy offensively who isn't going to generate enough power to make that really work. That said, he has value because he can play three infield positions well enough to stick around.
 
the about nunez is that he's not even a guarantee himself. i think he could just as easily put up a 1-1.5 WAR season as he could a 2.5 WAR season.
 
Super said:
the about nunez is that he's not even a guarantee himself. i think he could just as easily put up a 1-1.5 WAR season as he could a 2.5 WAR season.
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Nothing is a guarantee. But what you should look at is the probability of such outcomes.
 
If Swanson struggles this year then having Nunez to cover for him would not make a difference. I would be extremely disappointed if a struggling Swanson got benched by Nunez or Phillips or any other aging vet.

I would be happy to take a jogun/ rio war total versus Nunez.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
If Swanson struggles this year then having Nunez to cover for him would not make a difference. I would be extremely disappointed if a struggling Swanson got benched by Nunez or Phillips or any other aging vet.

I would be happy to take a jogun/ rio war total versus Nunez.
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I think one of the insights that teams like the Dodgers have brought to bear in recent years is the importance of depth to avoid having black holes at certain positions. There is no certainty that Nunez or any player will turn in a certain level of performance. But having three of Nunez, Camargo, Swanson to share the left side of the infield reduces the odds one of those positions turns into a black hole. We are not talking in terms of certainty here, but rather probability. The more depth you have and plausible alternatives you have, the less chance you have of having a complete lack of production at any given position.
 
nsacpi said:
I think one of the insights that teams like the Dodgers have brought to bear in recent years is the importance of depth to avoid having black holes at certain positions. There is no certainty that Nunez or any player will turn in a certain level of performance. But having three of Nunez, Camargo, Swanson to share the left side of the infield reduces the odds one of those positions turns into a black hole. We are not talking in terms of certainty here, but rather probability. The more depth you have and plausible alternatives you have, the less chance you have of having a complete lack of production at any given position.
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I agree. When you have a complete team, Adding guys like Nunez is important. When you are the 2018 Braves it is not necessary to spend millions on a guy like Nunez for a year. He is not someone who is going to net you assets at the deadline either.
 
clvclv said:
I've been in favor of a veteran addition all along at 3B - not so much because I don't think Camargo will be OK, but because I'm not a believer in Ruiz. If Dansby happens to struggle badly, we're going to have a black hole at one of the two spots on the left side since you're looking at Culberson playing a lot if you don't slide Johan back. I don't think there's much chance at all that we see Riley prior to 2019 even if he explodes.

The reason Nunez made so much sense is that there's little doubt that he'd be an upgrade - even if a minor one - that wouldn't really be getting in anyone's way and he'd be a really nice trade piece at the deadline assuming the Braves aren't within shouting distance of the second wildcard spot and AA chooses to pull the plug.
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The Swanson Contingency would probably be moving Albies to short and Camargo to 2B?

I'd still like to see them sign someone like Maybin.
 
The Braves are going to struggle to win 80 games. They don't need anyone to hold down anything.

What they needed, and expressly declared they needed, was a stopgap at 3B. Several stopgaps at 3B have joined other teams at relative bargain prices.

This isn't a case where the Braves decided players weren't a fit, or that they weren't needed. They simply can't afford the players that would have been good fits.

We are probably looking at a $5M or cheaper addition for 3B/LF if one is made at all.
 
Enscheff said:
The Braves are going to struggle to win 80 games. They don't need anyone to hold down anything.

What they needed, and expressly declared they needed, was a stopgap at 3B. Several stopgaps at 3B have joined other teams at relative bargain prices.

This isn't a case where the Braves decided players weren't a fit, or that they weren't needed. They simply can't afford the players that would have been good fits.

We are probably looking at a $5M or cheaper addition for 3B/LF if one is made at all.
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Under. I don't see them winning 80 games as currently made up. That would really require better pitching than I think they are going to get. I am afraid they will fall into a hole early.

My guess is they do add someone at the price point you mention (4-6 million) along with maybe one or two other small pieces.
 
Southcack77 said:
Under. I don't see them winning 80 games as currently made up. That would really require better pitching than I think they are going to get. I am afraid they will fall into a hole early.

My guess is they do add someone at the price point you mention (4-6 million) along with maybe one or two other small pieces.
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I think Maybin makes a lot of sense. He fits in well as a short term starter that can slide into the 4th OFer role.

Whether or not the Braves can afford him...no idea.
 
Enscheff said:
The Braves are going to struggle to win 80 games. They don't need anyone to hold down anything.

What they needed, and expressly declared they needed, was a stopgap at 3B. Several stopgaps at 3B have joined other teams at relative bargain prices.

This isn't a case where the Braves decided players weren't a fit, or that they weren't needed. They simply can't afford the players that would have been good fits.

We are probably looking at a $5M or cheaper addition for 3B/LF if one is made at all.
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This is not likely a playoff team, so it is in the best long term interest not to buy additional wins. Even if we had the option of picking up a 4-5 win 3B for a 1 year contract at the minimum, I would rather see what Camargo has. Use this year to payoff the Kazmir money, see what you have in the young guys, hopefully pick up a #10-12ish spot in the draft, and get loaded for next year. If they are determined to spend money on marginal upgrades then I hope they spend it on bullpen pieces that can be flipped at the deadline. I really wish they would keep Gohara down long enough to gain another year of control too, but I just can't see that happening.
 
Jaw said:
This is not likely a playoff team, so it is in the best long term interest not to buy additional wins. Even if we had the option of picking up a 4-5 win 3B for a 1 year contract at the minimum, I would rather see what Camargo has. Use this year to payoff the Kazmir money, see what you have in the young guys, hopefully pick up a #10-12ish spot in the draft, and get loaded for next year. If they are determined to spend money on marginal upgrades then I hope they spend it on bullpen pieces that can be flipped at the deadline. I really wish they would keep Gohara down long enough to gain another year of control too, but I just can't see that happening.
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Said it better than I did.
 
If the Braves aren't going to improve the record this year, and it certainly doesn't appear that they will in any kind of significant way, then it is to their best benefit to be as bad as they can be since they are serving out their post Coppy punishment.

Now, I'm not saying throw games but play the young guys and move any veteran with value.
 
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