Barack Obama and Jason Heyward

[yeezus]

Anybody who actually believes that Arpaio and his ilk are in any way representative of the greater 'right' is delusional, at best. But I guess that's convenient to whatever weak point you are trying to make, so have at it.

this is just like when you tried to convince people bush technically didn't lie and using BS reasons/excuses. both of these are pretty clear, but denial is common.

 

[Hawk]

this is just like when you tried to convince people bush technically didn't lie and using BS reasons/excuses. both of these are pretty clear, but denial is common.

I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything, I'm just mocking ignorance by shooting holes through simple and unfounded belief systems.

 

[yeezus]

I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything, I'm just mocking ignorance by shooting holes through simple and unfounded belief systems.

Yup, thinking the right criticizes Obama more harshly because he's black is unfounded. Definitely man.
I guess because they don't explicitly say it, it's not true. Or because it isn't every single person, it isn't true.

 

[Hawk]

Yup, thinking the right criticizes Obama more harshly because he's black is unfounded. Definitely man.
I guess because they don't explicitly say it, it's not true. Or because it isn't every single person, it isn't true.

Haha, look, everyone, yeezus is suddenly an arbiter of race morality!

It might be fair to say that Obama is criticized more harshly because he's black, in general, but painting the 'right' as the chief perpetrator is actually quite sad ... not to mention betraying of your biases and objectivity.

 

[weso1]

Let's not even forget the people who voted against Obama because he's black. That in itself is a number we know is there but not quantifiable right now. That IMO just cancels out the "extra black vote".

That's a pretty large assumption.

 

[weso1]

Obama being first black pres is easily cancelled out by Hilary being first female pres and there's a whole lot more women out there than black folks.

The lie that Obama won because of the black vote is a lie.

2012 exit polls had Obama getting 93% of the black vote, 2008 he got 95% of the black vote (whoops) 2004 ultra white John Kerry got 88% of the black vote, 2000 AL Gore got 90% of the black vote. What you and the other people who point to race are not acknowledging is that Obama trounced his opponents in all races. While Bush held around 40% in Latinos and Asians, McCain and Romney slipped in both of those McCain carrying about 30% in latinos and 35% in asians and Romney at about 30% latinos and 25% asians. While it's worth it to note, Romney carried more of the white vote than Bush did in 2000, if you don't think that's a clear disadvantage for Obama than well, I don't know what to say.

In the post you quoted I stated that I don't think Obama won any presidential election because of his race.

You are arguing different facts then I am. You need to look at black voter rates in regards to how many blacks actually voted. That number increased significantly. Now some of that has nothing to do with race. Some of it has more to do with early voting, but I do think race played a role for obvious reasons.

 

[weso1]

Yup, thinking the right criticizes Obama more harshly because he's black is unfounded. Definitely man.
I guess because they don't explicitly say it, it's not true. Or because it isn't every single person, it isn't true.

Why do you think he's been criticized more harshly? I seem to remember Clinton being criticized very harshly from the right. He was impeached for heaven's sake. I think you just hear it more because more people are on the internet these days. Lots of trolls out there. Not so much during the Clinton years. Talk radio hammered Clinton though. I think you've got some pretty bad selective memory.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

It might be fair to say that Obama is criticized more harshly because he's black, in general, but painting the 'right' as the chief perpetrator is actually quite sad

OK dude, you're gonna have to explain this part to me, using crayons if necessary, I guess.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

That's a pretty large assumption.

OK I was with you on most of your other stuff but I can't agree with this. I realize it's unprovable because pretty much nobody will admit being a racist today (unless they're wearing a white hood) but are you saying there weren't/aren't a fairly sizable chunk from the right hand side of the political spectrum (not saying a majority or anything like that, just a good sized chunk of folks) who hate Obama and oppose everything Obama says or does because he's black-ish?

 

[weso1]

OK I was with you on most of your other stuff but I can't agree with this. I realize it's unprovable because pretty much nobody will admit being a racist today (unless they're wearing a white hood) but are you saying there weren't/aren't a fairly sizable chunk from the right hand side of the political spectrum (not saying a majority or anything like that, just a good sized chunk of folks) who hate Obama and oppose everything Obama says or does because he's black-ish?

I definitely think that group exists, but I'm not sure the evidence is there that they went out to the polls more than previous years and or changed their vote because of it.

 

[Hawk]

Correlating race hatred with conservatives is one of the most shameful, not to mention dangerous, things I've ever read on this board. Racism knows no political belief system.

 

[Tapate50]

Wasn't Hermain Cain taken pretty seriously for the right as a candidate until his romantic misgivings came out?

 

[gilesfan]

this is just like when you tried to convince people bush technically didn't lie and using BS reasons/excuses. both of these are pretty clear, but denial is common.

Shouldn't you capitalize the first word in a sentence?

 

[gilesfan]

Yup, thinking the right criticizes Obama more harshly because he's black is unfounded. Definitely man.
I guess because they don't explicitly say it, it's not true. Or because it isn't every single person, it isn't true.

You really should revise this post. Holy ****.

 

[50PoundHead]

Wasn't Hermain Cain taken pretty seriously for the right as a candidate until his romantic misgivings came out?

I would say "No." He had a "flavor of the month" quality that wasn't going to stand up to scrutiny. I think the romantic stuff was just the cue for his dismissal as a serious candidate. There are black conservatives. I don't know if Ben Carson will be a presidential candidate or a serious one if he is. I believe there are more race-based thinkers on the right than on the left at this point in time, but that doesn't make the entire conservative super-structure necessarily racist.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

Correlating race hatred with conservatives is one of the most shameful, not to mention dangerous, things I've ever read on this board. Racism knows no political belief system.

What's the difference between my saying it exists (though not trying to insinuate any sort of statistics) and your saying they may exist but since everyone does it it's OK (that's why I asked you to explain what you meant). I don't think you're the kind of person who's playing this game but it could easily be twisted into "if you can't prove with statistics that one party or the other doesn't take part in that, which we all (hopefully) know is baloney. All I'm saying is more than a few on the political right are racist (against Obama just because) motorscooters, and more than a few on the political left are racists as well, be it for Obama just because or against some other person of color because he/she doesn't toe the line like they think a person should.

I don't see what's so unacceptable about that statement. So, enlighten me.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

I definitely think that group exists

Then we're pretty much in agreement, though I'm not sure which year(s) and/or election(s) we're talking about so I guess I'll have to ask you to give me a bit more data first. By the way I don't really think we're really disagreeing all that much on this, I hate all racism, the kind that hates Obama regardless of his policies AND the kind that just lies in wait to blast anyone who criticizes him regardless of the reasons why.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

Wasn't Hermain Cain taken pretty seriously for the right as a candidate until his romantic misgivings came out?

"Romantic Misgivings", lol. That's a good one. Do you mind if I register/trademark this one, so I can sell it to the Dems or the Repubs (OK, most likely the Dems) the next time a sexually based scandal or accusations come out?

 

[Hawk]

What's the difference between my saying it exists (though not trying to insinuate any sort of statistics) and your saying they may exist but since everyone does it it's OK (that's why I asked you to explain what you meant). I don't think you're the kind of person who's playing this game but it could easily be twisted into "if you can't prove with statistics that one party or the other doesn't take part in that, which we all (hopefully) know is baloney. All I'm saying is more than a few on the political right are racist (against Obama just because) motorscooters, and more than a few on the political left are racists as well, be it for Obama just because or against some other person of color because he/she doesn't toe the line like they think a person should.

I don't see what's so unacceptable about that statement. So, enlighten me.

You can say that, I don't see any basis in it aside from the fact that more conservatives are white and the birther movement originated from a fringe element of the right. It's just a huge generalization and detractingly petty, IMO.

I think most of the criticism towards Obama has more to due with his ill-fated policies and style of leadership than it does with the color of his skin. The latter assertion seems like a mega cop-out and I think Obama himself would readily eschew it.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

You can say that, I don't see any basis in it aside from the fact that more conservatives are white and the birther movement originated from a fringe element of the right. It's just a huge generalization and detractingly petty, IMO.

I think most of the criticism towards Obama has more to due with his ill-fated policies and style of leadership than it does with the color of his skin. The latter assertion seems like a mega cop-out and I think Obama himself would readily eschew it.

Once again I never mentioned a particular amount/percentage, but here's a way to check it for yourself if you're interested. First there's nothing wrong with anyone who dislikes him for his policies. That's what you're supposed to do, like him or dislike him based on those things. If you talk to anyone who goes on and on about how much they dislike him and you can see the fuming puffs of smoke coming out of their ears, but when you ask them what it is about him that they dislike or maybe what they dislike the most and they stutter and him-haw around about either can't name anything or maybe stumble over some Repub talking point or catchphrase that you know damn well they couldn't define or explain in about 1,000,000 years then yeah, I think there's more going on there than just policy differences.

Oh and I really don't mean any disrespect or insult by this next comment. I think you're a pretty decent guy and one of the brighter individuals who posts here, but one consistent flaw (IMO only) I see in your political posts is that you start the discussion on what something is, what happened, what somebody did or intended to do, etc., from where YOU would do it/have done it rather than admit there are some really scummy SOBs out there running two major political parties who would do absolutely anything to get and keep the power and money they crave with whatever piss poor excuse for a soul they carry around with them. Trust me my friend, they are definitely NOT you.

OK, set me straight. I got off work for a snow day today so this would be a good day for me to get some enlightenment.