Bethancourt

nsacpi

nsacpi

Expects Yuge Games
.543 OPS so far in the majors.

Not too surprising considering his .676 OPS in AAA.

I have a better understanding now of why his walk rate is so low. He swings at a lot of pitches outside the strike zone. Some of them way outside the strike zone.

I would sign David Ross to be our backup catcher and éminence grise in 2015 and have Bethancourt spend another year in AAA to work on his plate discipline.

Even in a down year Ross has put up an OPS 40 points higher than Bethancourt.
 
Trade him asap and get whatever "potential" value you can get out of him.

Use Laird/Ross/Gattis for the next few years until you develop another quality catcher in the system.
 
nsacpi said:
.543 OPS so far in the majors.

Not too surprising considering his .676 OPS in AAA.

I have a better understanding now of why his walk rate is so low. He swings at a lot of pitches outside the strike zone. Some of them way outside the strike zone.

I would sign David Ross to be our backup catcher and éminence grise in 2015 and have Bethancourt spend another year in AAA to work on his plate discipline.

Even in a down year Ross has put up an OPS 40 points higher than Bethancourt.
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But his defense is superior to all of our other catchers and must start.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Trade him asap and get whatever "potential" value you can get out of him.

Use Laird/Ross/Gattis for the next few years until you develop another quality catcher in the system.
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I know you may not be serious but if the Braves could maximize his value I'd trade him.
 
AerchAngel said:
Is this sarcasm, my meter battery is dying?
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He doesn't frame pitches as well as McCann or Gattis. He's closer to the Laird mold of framing pitches which is not even giving your pitcher a chance to get a call and swiping the glove immediately.

He probably is better at blocking balls than Gattis or Laird, but his bat is a huge liability.

Lairdership >
Gorn's Offense >

That leaves Bethancourt as the odd man out. If we trade him to some team hoping that he lives up to his potential, we could probably get more value for him than we could with Gattis because of Gorn's possible lingering injuries long-term.
 
KeithLockhart said:
He doesn't frame pitches as well as McCann or Gattis. He's closer to the Laird mold of framing pitches which is not even giving your pitcher a chance to get a call and swiping the glove immediately.

He probably is better at blocking balls than Gattis or Laird, but his bat is a huge liability.

Lairdership >
Gorn's Offense >

That leaves Bethancourt as the odd man out. If we trade him to some team hoping that he lives up to his potential, we could probably get more value for him than we could with Gattis because of Gorn's possible lingering injuries long-term.
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If I said that a certain poster on the board would rake me over the coals and call me an idiot.

I agree with you and said as much.

Oh news for you, our new priest today starts and he is Filipino, first time to see him and all the new Filipinos we see in the church today. I am excited, love the people, my best friend when I worked as an Air Traffic Controller was a Filipino descendent. Always put a smile or try to put a smile on my face and he said that Filipinos always try to do that no matter the circumstances. Great people I just wish Americans were like that.
 
Tapate50 said:
Isn't this where the sample size natzis come down like a hammer?
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All I've read and heard about him coming through the system was he was going to be as great of a defensive catcher as Molina. Still haven't seen that yet, and I personally find much much much value in pitch framing.

McCann singlehandedly could change the outcome of an at-bat with how well he set up and framed pitches against hitters. If McCann caught Maddux back in the day, Maddux could strike out an easy 15-20 guys per game. That't not a knock on Eddie, but Mac was rated consistently in the top of the league in pitch framing.

I don't see the same calm and command with Bethancourt behind the plate. Still green, but McCann looked ready from the day he was called up. And if he isn't going to really hit, he better be able to change a game like Molina (and that says a lot because I find the drooling over Molina's "defense" to be a bit annoying. Unnecessarily tries to pick off guys at first way way too much just to show off sometimes).
 
David Ross? You mean the David Ross with a .585 OPS this season. The one who was 9 BBs ad 40 Ks in 122 PAs? Just trying to make sure we're all thinking of the same guy. I'm afraid Ross is around the bend.

I don't harbor many illusions on Bethancourt. His minor league record shows a penchant for not taking walks and he hasn't been able to parlay his size/strength into fungible power. He likely needs more time to see if he will develop and if his defense--his supposed calling card--proves to be substandard, he won't have much value in either Atlanta or as a trade chip.

On the plus side, he's still only 22, but he needs to refine his game.
 
KeithLockhart said:
All I've read and heard about him coming through the system was he was going to be as great of a defensive catcher as Molina. Still haven't seen that yet, and I personally find much much much value in pitch framing.
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I wonder when Cy will come in and call you an idiot for saying it. I had to delete many posts after dressing him down when he called me that about what you've just said. I am glad you see what I have seen. I hope he comes here and call you an "idiot" as well, it will be funny.
 
50PoundHead said:
David Ross? You mean the David Ross with a .585 OPS this season. The one who was 9 BBs ad 40 Ks in 122 PAs? Just trying to make sure we're all thinking of the same guy. I'm afraid Ross is around the bend.

I don't harbor many illusions on Bethancourt. His minor league record shows a penchant for not taking walks and he hasn't been able to parlay his size/strength into fungible power. He likely needs more time to see if he will develop and if his defense--his supposed calling card--proves to be substandard, he won't have much value in either Atlanta or as a trade chip.

On the plus side, he's still only 22, but he needs to refine his game.
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Another that agrees with me. Wow, I guess you two are idiots too according to a certain mod.
 
NinersSBChamps said:
So CB can't get better at pitch framing? He is like what 22 years old?
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I don't think that's something you necessarily improve on. You either have it or don't. Molina has caught the same way since he came into the league. Same as Mac. Ross was also great at it too. Made Medlen look like god.

Laird has caught the same way since Texas and he didn't improve with age.
 
Bethancourt seems overrated defensively. I thought this before hand from watching him in the minors but I trust our scouts. So I just continue to go with what they say, but I cannot say I've been impressed. All this talk about his defense while he already has three passed balls and could be charged with more (a few other wild pitches a good defender usually stops). Plus I agree that his pitch framing has been pretty rough so far too.

That said, I still like his potential and he surely has a cannon of an arm. But that isn't enough if he swings at balls way outside (some terrible AB's of late) and doesn't do it blocking balls and framing pitches, etc.
 
50PoundHead said:
David Ross? You mean the David Ross with a .585 OPS this season. The one who was 9 BBs ad 40 Ks in 122 PAs?
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I actually agree with him because the last time Ross put up an OPS like that in Boston he came here after and did very well for us. I expect he'd hit better in the NL with us again too.
 
The org wishes that they could combine Gattis's skills at the plate with Bethancourt's skills behind it. Maybe he'll be a dedicated catcher for one of the starting pitchers and late inning defensive replacement. With what he'll cost vs. a vet, they'll stick with him. Still, some of you are awfully impatient. His level of hitting has been known, and he'll get sent back down after Gattis is activated. Give him next year at AAA too. Not everybody can blow through the minors in 2 1/2 years.
 
A young catcher in the system that is worth keeping an eye on, IMO, is Tanner Murphy. His numbers don't jump out at you yet, but this is a player who has improved his ISO from 0.034 last year to 0.167 this year. He's 19 years old in short season ball right now, but he has a 0.717 OPS so far this year and a 0.767 OPS over his past 37 at bats. He's got a .197 average but a .353 OBP due to his 18% BB rate. He's been the victim of an unusually low BABIP. From a defensive standpoint, I keep hearing that his glove will play catcher.
 
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