Blow up

T

TheBravos

Boras' Client
I'm not saying I want to do this at all...just a question for discussion. Let's say we we play ok the next few weeks, but loose most of them. Coppy doesn't have to wonder about selling...it's the only option. Let's say he sits down a realizes that we do not have a legitimate chance of beating the Dodgers, Astros, Nats or Yankees in the next two years and he decides to make our REAL run for a WS in 2020. He decides to blow it up.

He moves:

Freeman to the Yankees

Julio/Garcia to the Astros

Inciarte and a reliever like Viz

Gets a massive offer for Folty + and takes it

To the surprise of everyone even moves Dansby, Newk and Flowers in a big deal.

He is able to move Nick in the offseason.

So coming into 2018 we have Kemp, Acuna, DPete , SRod, Camargo, Oz and Adams. Pitching staff for the first part of the year Dickey, Wisler, Sims, Medlen someone signed before the younger guys come up later in the season. This would be the team before adding any of the prospects/players coming in.

My Question:

What would be the return in ALL of those packages. How many top 100's would we see coming back. Seems like we would have at least 15 top 100 prospects in our system by the time the dust settled.
 
TheBravos said:
A ton of our farm would be in the big leagues (not even adding trades), by 2019. 2023-2024 is six to Sven years away lol??
Click to expand...

They'd be in the majors prematurely and learning on the job. The minors and the majors are in entirely different galaxies.
 
We'd have a great farm system but the ML team would suck for 3 or more years.
 
Do we get to hang banners for minor league championships? If we do this, I may have to become a fan of the Mississippi Braves.

In all seriousness, someone could do WAR/expected WAR calculations to add up what each of our prospects would be worth and take it that way.
 
It's really too late for this. It would literally take new ownership, say in the form of HH, to buy the team and say that "we are going to rebuild from the ground up and if it takes 5 years to do it right, then so be it." But, the reality is that isn't going to happen.

But, hypothetically, in an alternate universe, you could:

Trade Freeman and Teheran to Houston for Bregman, Tucker, Fisher and Rogers. Astros play Gurriel at 3B. Clears about $28M of payroll.
Trade Inciarte to the Cubs for Schwarber, Almora and Mark Zagunis. Inciarte plays CF, Happ slides to LF.

Play Adams/Kemp at 1B through 2019 or until you trade them or they are so bad you cut them. Groom Schwarber for 1B long term.

FA prior to 2018, sign Lucroy to a bounce back deal. Have a catching duo of Lucroy and Flowers to handle the young pitching. Sign three starting pitchers with upside, maybe one staff leader if you can get him. something like: Arrieta, Eovaldi, Buchholz with the plan that you will trade 1 or more by the break 2018 (or release if they don't bounce back)

Sign 3-4 of the best relievers you can get: Wade Davis, Jake McGee, etc. and be prepared to move them at the 2018 deadline for best return.

You can make these moves because the overall team cost virtually nothing.

In 2019 you could have a team of: 2B Albies, SS Swanson, LF Acuna, 1B Schwarber, 3B Bregman, RF Tucker, CF Almora, C Lucroy/Flowers

A rotation of: Arrieta, Folty, Newcomb, Best 2 of Wright/Allard/Soroka/Gohara

Payroll is very little at that point because you are finishing off Kemp, you have Arrieta (or Darvish or whoever) and everyone else is pre-arb or just heading into it.

So you have money. Need a SS? how about FA Segura. Want to make a splash? How about Machado, Donaldson or Harper? Donaldson might be a 1B.
Want a CF? How about Charlie Blackmon? Want a starter with experience? How about Wainwright?

And the farm, even after graduating a lot of talent would probably be stronger than it is right now.

So, I think a case can be made that it would be a better strategy. But it's not going to happen.
 
I don't think there's any doubt it's a better strategy.

We simply aren't going to compete in the next few years with the Astros or Yankees or Dodgers or Indians or Red Sox or Nats or Cubs.

It's fantasyland.

By the time the youngsters hit the bigs/their prime, Freddie will be old and Julio will be out of baseball.

Couple that with going heavy on pitching and we're destined for mediocrity.

Sucks being owned by people who don't care.
 
SJ24 said:
I don't think there's any doubt it's a better strategy.

We simply aren't going to compete in the next few years with the Astros or Yankees or Dodgers or Indians or Red Sox or Nats or Cubs.

It's fantasyland.

By the time the youngsters hit the bigs/their prime, Freddie will be old and Julio will be out of baseball.

Couple that with going heavy on pitching and we're destined for mediocrity.

Sucks being owned by people who don't care.
Click to expand...

Nats are chokers.
 
msstate7 said:
And I thought I was melting over this sweep...
Click to expand...

Haha...I'm not melting. The Braves are just about where I thought they would be and have overachieved if you add in Freddie's missed time and Colon's implosion.

I look at how the Astros were built. I know the Dodgers have more money, but both were patient. I just honestly don't see us (in our best case scenario) competing with the Astros and Dodgers. They are this good and STILL have a strong farm to go get ANY needs they have. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see us doing anything more than making the playoffs and getting absolutely spanked before 2019 or 2020. Is that's the case....Freddie and Julio are barely in that window.

My glass isn't always halfway empty....we have improved. We have played hard for the most part. I'm also a realist, and it would be an absolute miracle for us to win a WS (or even get to one), before 2020. That means we pay Freddie a ton of money and use his prime value for what? We most likely won't be able to sign him to the next deal and even if we do...it would likely end up a bad contract by the end.

The Astros did it right. We did it "somewhat" right. I just don't want to make the wild card and get spanked a few years before blowing it all up again after everyone has been fired. I would rather just get it over with. I fricken love Freddie ...he's the man. I just don't see us being "real" contenders with these young dynasties just now peaking.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
It's really too late for this. It would literally take new ownership, say in the form of HH, to buy the team and say that "we are going to rebuild from the ground up and if it takes 5 years to do it right, then so be it." But, the reality is that isn't going to happen.

But, hypothetically, in an alternate universe, you could:

Trade Freeman and Teheran to Houston for Bregman, Tucker, Fisher and Rogers. Astros play Gurriel at 3B. Clears about $28M of payroll.
Trade Inciarte to the Cubs for Schwarber, Almora and Mark Zagunis. Inciarte plays CF, Happ slides to LF.

Play Adams/Kemp at 1B through 2019 or until you trade them or they are so bad you cut them. Groom Schwarber for 1B long term.

FA prior to 2018, sign Lucroy to a bounce back deal. Have a catching duo of Lucroy and Flowers to handle the young pitching. Sign three starting pitchers with upside, maybe one staff leader if you can get him. something like: Arrieta, Eovaldi, Buchholz with the plan that you will trade 1 or more by the break 2018 (or release if they don't bounce back)

Sign 3-4 of the best relievers you can get: Wade Davis, Jake McGee, etc. and be prepared to move them at the 2018 deadline for best return.

You can make these moves because the overall team cost virtually nothing.

In 2019 you could have a team of: 2B Albies, SS Swanson, LF Acuna, 1B Schwarber, 3B Bregman, RF Tucker, CF Almora, C Lucroy/Flowers

A rotation of: Arrieta, Folty, Newcomb, Best 2 of Wright/Allard/Soroka/Gohara

Payroll is very little at that point because you are finishing off Kemp, you have Arrieta (or Darvish or whoever) and everyone else is pre-arb or just heading into it.

So you have money. Need a SS? how about FA Segura. Want to make a splash? How about Machado, Donaldson or Harper? Donaldson might be a 1B.
Want a CF? How about Charlie Blackmon? Want a starter with experience? How about Wainwright?

And the farm, even after graduating a lot of talent would probably be stronger than it is right now.

So, I think a case can be made that it would be a better strategy. But it's not going to happen.
Click to expand...

You are always good at blueprints even if I don't agree with them, but I want no part of Schwarber unless we were to immediately flip him to an AL team for someone who could play in the field.

If it's about competing with the Dodgers and other big payroll teams, that's probably never going to happen on the ledger sheet. Which is why we have to be careful how we would load up the minors in addition to whom we load the minor leagues with. Ideally, the guys come in waves. You just can't throw 8 youngsters out there all at once for aesthetic and contract reasons as they relate to arbitration.
 
TheBravos said:
I'm not saying I want to do this at all...just a question for discussion. Let's say we we play ok the next few weeks, but loose most of them. Coppy doesn't have to wonder about selling...it's the only option. Let's say he sits down a realizes that we do not have a legitimate chance of beating the Dodgers, Astros, Nats or Yankees in the next two years and he decides to make our REAL run for a WS in 2020. He decides to blow it up.

He moves:

Freeman to the Yankees

Julio/Garcia to the Astros

Inciarte and a reliever like Viz

Gets a massive offer for Folty + and takes it

To the surprise of everyone even moves Dansby, Newk and Flowers in a big deal.

He is able to move Nick in the offseason.

So coming into 2018 we have Kemp, Acuna, DPete , SRod, Camargo, Oz and Adams. Pitching staff for the first part of the year Dickey, Wisler, Sims, Medlen someone signed before the younger guys come up later in the season. This would be the team before adding any of the prospects/players coming in.

My Question:

What would be the return in ALL of those packages. How many top 100's would we see coming back. Seems like we would have at least 15 top 100 prospects in our system by the time the dust settled.
Click to expand...

I think coming to the conclusion that 2020 is our first real year is a reasonable one.

That said you have to build up to it. I don't think you can trade all of our good players and hope we are good in 2020. At the very least you'd have to play a lot of young guys and have other posters yell about service time.

There is NO WAY the Coppy Hart does this. FF is a non-starter. Inciarte is the golden guy from their trades now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top