Boston writer advocating acquiring Jason Heyward in the off season

I don't think we are far from determining defensive value but I do think defense is over valued in the WAR formula. If Heywood is so great defensively he needs to be in center. Even if he is just above average in center it is a more important defensive position. Then maybe he will be worth 20+ mill a year. This would also make it much easier to find a bat for a corner outfield spot. Any center fielder who can put up a .800 OPS and play even below average defense is considered a star player.
 
gilesfan said:
I would bank you don't even know how these stats are calculated, but go ahead and do a quick google search to see how much you can learn in a few minutes.
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I've read fielding bible several times. Volumes 1 and 2. I've read BTF report on UZR, fangraphs info on UZR, and from more than a few other sites.

I actually you know like to understand things that I support.
 
yeezus said:
Heyward is a better player than Freddie and absolutely has higher upside. Heyward does every single thing you ask of a player on the field. Great base runner, elite defense, patient hitter. His power is only thing missing this year, and he has too much for it to be gone forever.
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I love everything about the way Heyward carries himself and plays the game. we need more players like that. But at this point he's a gold glove RF, probably the best in baseball, and a middle of the road hitter.
 
1. Peraza 2B
2. Simmons SS
3. Freeman 1B
4. J. Upton RF
5. Gattis LF
6. Heyward CF
7. New 3B it's one spot to upgrade
8. Bethancourt C
 
emk418 said:
1. Peraza 2B
2. Simmons SS
3. Freeman 1B
4. J. Upton RF
5. Gattis LF
6. Heyward CF
7. New 3B it's one spot to upgrade
8. Bethancourt C
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I actually really like that. I really do. But only if the DH somehow magically comes to the NL this offseason. Because Gattis in left? Wow. And I say that as a charter member of the white bear fan club.
 
Carp said:
Again no support at all at your argument. Just another childish response equivalent to "Nun-uh!"
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Why do I have to support my evidence? You don't know what's being tracked if you think a fielders reputation comes in as a factor. Not to mention you use one quantitative stat and then put down another. Stupid to do that.
 
emk418 said:
1. Peraza 2B
2. Simmons SS
3. Freeman 1B
4. J. Upton RF
5. Gattis LF
6. Heyward CF
7. New 3B it's one spot to upgrade
8. Bethancourt C
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Why would you want one of our worst hitters hitting in the two spot and one of our best in the 6th spot? That doesn't make any sense.
 
zitothebrave said:
Why do I have to support my evidence? You don't know what's being tracked if you think a fielders reputation comes in as a factor. Not to mention you use one quantitative stat and then put down another. Stupid to do that.
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May be becasue I brought points on why it's defensive stats are severely flawed and you simply disagreed without any sort of evidence or argument stating why it's wrong.

And for your amusement:

Link

"As well, there were biases in the recording of the data, depending on the “stringer” (the person who does the data recording), the park, whether the game was being watched on television or in person, and even the players on the field (something called “range bias,” whereby the “rangier” the fielder, the closer to his original positioning the stringers would tend to record the location of the ball). Later on, with BIS and STATS, and other data companies, we had access to more granular data, such as the “exact” location of each batted ball, a few more “type” categories, such as fly ball and line drive “fliners” (in between a line drive and a fly ball), the speed of the ball, soft, medium, and hard, and in the last few years, the actual air or ground time, in tenths of a second. Needless to say, even with these tremendously helpful details, they are all only approximations and we are still at the mercy of the stringers’ judgment."
 
zitothebrave said:
Yes 100% yes. If we weren't one of the best teams in the NL, then I'd say trade Jason because we need a haul, But We're one of the best teams in the NL and Jason for sure has been a healthy part of that. I would absolutely take Jason and the playoffs over prospects and likely missing the playoffs. If we get murdered with injuries and are out of the picture in June/July then you trade Jason or Justin. Seriously winning teams don't trade top players.
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We're maybe 4th at best.

LA/Wsh/Stl are clearly better.

Jason is my favorite player but if he wont re-sign, i dont see why you dont trade him.

Provided he would turn down an extension.

Throw in teams like Mil, SF, Pit, etc.

We're not as good as you and others seem to think.
 
thethe said:
Jason Heyward is really effin valuable. That much can't be disputed. Its all about whether or not you are going to let him walk for just a comp pick. That is something I don't want to do. Do whatever it takes to sign him long term but if he doesn't do it then you absolutely have to trade him. This team is not that close to winning a title.
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Someone gets it.
 
Carp said:
May be becasue I brought points on why it's defensive stats are severely flawed and you simply disagreed without any sort of evidence or argument stating why it's wrong.

And for your amusement:

Link

"As well, there were biases in the recording of the data, depending on the “stringer” (the person who does the data recording), the park, whether the game was being watched on television or in person, and even the players on the field (something called “range bias,” whereby the “rangier” the fielder, the closer to his original positioning the stringers would tend to record the location of the ball). Later on, with BIS and STATS, and other data companies, we had access to more granular data, such as the “exact” location of each batted ball, a few more “type” categories, such as fly ball and line drive “fliners” (in between a line drive and a fly ball), the speed of the ball, soft, medium, and hard, and in the last few years, the actual air or ground time, in tenths of a second. Needless to say, even with these tremendously helpful details, they are all only approximations and we are still at the mercy of the stringers’ judgment."
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Yes thanks for posting that espeically. the part at the end.

Basically what you're saying is that even if the stats we 95% accurate, they're worthless because they're not perfect. I love it of course.

I guess you don't believe in batting average, as it's an approximation.
 
gilesfan said:
There is no rightfielder that is going to win an MVP based on defense or their WAR numbers based largely on defense.

Show me where an outfielder has won an MVP with sub .800 OPS in the modern times.
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Ichiro did his rookie year. 124 WRC+ and a 6 WAR season because of defense and base running. Heyward will have his power back next year. And he is someone that is going to be in the 120 WRC+ area who will have a 6+ WAR season due to defense and base running.
 
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