Braves acquire Alex Jackson from SEA for Whalen and Povse

rico43 said:
There are still far too many gloom and doom people who insist on being negative in the middle of one of the most remarkable franchise turnarounds we've ever seen in ATL.
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50PoundHead said:
I think there are some who are worried that Coppolella is trying to make the sun rise before its time.
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Enscheff said:
Let's wait a bit before we label this rebuild a great success story that goes down in baseball lore.
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I think both of those posts are on-point responses to yours, rico. It's not "doom and gloom" to withhold apotheosis status from Coppolella a little longer, and it's not trashing the trade to comment that the Braves made a reasonable gamble, but hardly the greatest heist since Rififi.
 
jpx7 said:
I think both of those posts are on-point response to yours, rico. It's not "doom and gloom" to withhold apotheosis status from Coppolella a little longer, and it's not trashing the trade to comment that the Braves made a reasonable gamble, but hardly the greatest heist since Rififi.
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Yeah for the most part I like what the Braves have done with this rebuild and I think they're on the right track, but when you're using phrases like "one of the most remarkable franchise turnarounds we've ever seen" before most of the prospects involved in the rebuild have even gotten out of A+, I don't even know how to begin having a conversation with you. I even liked this trade, but is it really "doom and gloom" to admit that the odds are stacked against Jackson ever amounting to anything?
 
povse is really tall. guys like that take time to grow into their adult bodies. this guy has gotten better ever step along the way, from high school to uncg where he wasn't spectacular, now making his way through the minors. his most advanced stop in baseball was his best.

if they want to trade him, trade him, what have they not seen this guy progress? it's not like it's a terrible bet that he'll be good this year, getting him closer to the bigs and almost certainly increasing his value along the way.

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?player_id=605428#/career/R/pitching/2016/ALL

oh well. hope the new guy can play...
 
jpx7 said:
I think both of those posts are on-point responses to yours, rico. It's not "doom and gloom" to withhold apotheosis status from Coppolella a little longer, and it's not trashing the trade to comment that the Braves made a reasonable gamble, but hardly the greatest heist since Rififi.
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Especially when one considers that if not for Dave Stewart being a complete buffoon, the Braves rebuild would actually look pretty dire. Remove Swanson and Inciarte from the organization and suddenly the Braves are in pretty awful shape.

When you are playing poker with a bunch of friends, and one of your buddies gets bored and just goes all in on the next hand so he can go watch TV, is the winner of that pot a better poker player than anyone else? Or is he simply the guy that just so happened to have a pair of kings when the stupid friend decided to go all in? Same thing happened with Coppy when he traded Miller.
 
Enscheff said:
Especially when one considers that if not for Dave Stewart being a complete buffoon, the Braves rebuild would actually look pretty dire. Remove Swanson and Inciarte from the organization and suddenly the Braves are in pretty awful shape.

When you are playing poker with a bunch of friends, and one of your buddies gets bored and just goes all in on the next hand so he can go watch TV, is the winner of that pot a better poker player than anyone else? Or is he simply the guy that just so happened to have a pair of kings when the stupid friend decided to go all in? Same thing happened with Coppy when he traded Miller.
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I'd say it means you're a better poker player because it's you that's raking in all of the quitter's chips, not the other guys at the table.

Try another analogy.
 
Enscheff said:
Especially when one considers that if not for Dave Stewart being a complete buffoon, the Braves rebuild would actually look pretty dire. Remove Swanson and Inciarte from the organization and suddenly the Braves are in pretty awful shape.

When you are playing poker with a bunch of friends, and one of your buddies gets bored and just goes all in on the next hand so he can go watch TV, is the winner of that pot a better poker player than anyone else? Or is he simply the guy that just so happened to have a pair of kings when the stupid friend decided to go all in? Same thing happened with Coppy when he traded Miller.
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If's don't matter. The system is in better shape than it has been in forever. I like Coppy as a poker player.
 
jpx7 said:
I think both of those posts are on-point responses to yours, rico. It's not "doom and gloom" to withhold apotheosis status from Coppolella a little longer, and it's not trashing the trade to comment that the Braves made a reasonable gamble, but hardly the greatest heist since Rififi.
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In rico's defense, this has probably been the most remarkable system overhaul of the Braves' franchise in my lifetime (and I'm 47). I think that's what he's referring to. Sure, you can make the argument that the talent JS accrued when he stockpiled Chipper and Company way back when was as good or better, but that group wasn't acquired in this short a period of time.
 
Enscheff said:
Especially when one considers that if not for Dave Stewart being a complete buffoon, the Braves rebuild would actually look pretty dire. Remove Swanson and Inciarte from the organization and suddenly the Braves are in pretty awful shape.

When you are playing poker with a bunch of friends, and one of your buddies gets bored and just goes all in on the next hand so he can go watch TV, is the winner of that pot a better poker player than anyone else? Or is he simply the guy that just so happened to have a pair of kings when the stupid friend decided to go all in? Same thing happened with Coppy when he traded Miller.
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That's the one that accelerated the rebuild, but we'd still have the best and deepest farm in baseball without it.

And you're crazy if you think Coppy just lucked out there. He saw an idiot and played him like a fiddle. Nobody else stepped in and pulled that deal off.
 
clvclv said:
In rico's defense, this has probably been the most remarkable system overhaul of the Braves' franchise in my lifetime (and I'm 47). I think that's what he's referring to. Sure, you can make the argument that the talent JS accrued when he stockpiled Chipper and Company way back when was as good or better, but that group wasn't acquired in this short a period of time.
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Speaking only for myself, I guess I am just not comfortable calling it a "most remarkable system overhaul" until a little more of it translates to the major-league field.
 
rico43 said:
Braves had to clear a 40-man roster spot. Got a one-time highly regarded prospect in the process. Povse was, what, maybe 10-12th among the starting prospects?

There are still far too many gloom and doom people who insist on being negative in the middle of one of the most remarkable franchise turnarounds we've ever seen in ATL.
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The Braves seem to draft guys like Povse every year. It's a talent. I don't think its a big deal to give him up.
 
do we have any data that supports the notion of picking up 1st rounders when others have given up on them is any more effective than anything else?
 
There was a throw-away comment by one of the execs from the meetings that seems to indicate that Howard is balking or is having to "consider" moving back to catcher. If that's true, then I'm betting much of what they're saying about this guy is on point. He is very much at the shut-up-and-work stage of his career, and failure to do either would be grounds for letting him play in the American Association or Frontier League.
 
chipchildress said:
povse is really tall. guys like that take time to grow into their adult bodies. this guy has gotten better ever step along the way, from high school to uncg where he wasn't spectacular, now making his way through the minors. his most advanced stop in baseball was his best.

if they want to trade him, trade him, what have they not seen this guy progress? it's not like it's a terrible bet that he'll be good this year, getting him closer to the bigs and almost certainly increasing his value along the way.

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?player_id=605428#/career/R/pitching/2016/ALL

oh well. hope the new guy can play...
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Povse being in the deal suggests the Braves really wanted to take a gamble on Jackson specifically. It was more than clearing roster, or at least it evolved there.
 
rico43 said:
There was a throw-away comment by one of the execs from the meetings that seems to indicate that Howard is balking or is having to "consider" moving back to catcher. If that's true, then I'm betting much of what they're saying about this guy is on point. He is very much at the shut-up-and-work stage of his career, and failure to do either would be grounds for letting him play in the American Association or Frontier League.
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I know his career so far hasn't given him the right to any benefit of the doubt, but it seems quite possible that the question from the Braves was something along the lines of "do you want to continue in the OF, focus on your bat and try to get back on track quicker, or do you want to get back behind the plate, spend some time in extended and lower levels, drop some weight and maybe concede some potential with the bat?" I don't think it's unreasonable for him to weigh the options if they were given to him.
 
mqt said:
I know his career so far hasn't given him the right to any benefit of the doubt, but it seems quite possible that the question from the Braves was something along the lines of "do you want to continue in the OF, focus on your bat and try to get back on track quicker, or do you want to get back behind the plate, spend some time in extended and lower levels, drop some weight and maybe concede some potential with the bat?" I don't think it's unreasonable for him to weigh the options if they were given to him.
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Why would he be conceding potential with the bat by moving to C?
 
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