Braves donate Justin Upton to Padres for prospects

Does anyone honestly think they'd trade Gallo for a LF? Average 3B seem to be getting rarer and if Gallo is projected to be better then they can trade him for way more than Justin Upton. And I say this as a big fan of Justin's but good 3B prospects aren't just going to be this easy to get.
 
BremanFan88 said:
Does anyone honestly think they'd trade Gallo for a LF? Average 3B seem to be getting rarer and if Gallo is projected to be better then they can trade him for way more than Justin Upton. And I say this as a big fan of Justin's but good 3B prospects aren't just going to be this easy to get.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the rarity of legitimate 3B prospects, with that being said, it seems like many scouts and "experts" seem to think Gallo will eventually have to move to 1B because of his defense -or lack there of- and with Prince -and his unmovable contract- enriched at 1st for the foreseeable future maybe, just maybe, Gallo could be had. Pure speculation on my part, but I couldn't agree more on the fact that 3B prospects are becoming a rarity.
 
Hawk said:
On what basis? Dude's 26 (and will only be 34 when his deal ends -- assuming he doesn't opt out in a couple of years), is fourth among shortstops in OBP (.331) and seventh in defensive runs saved the past three seasons.

His contract could still end up being a bargain when it's all said and done.
Click to expand...

That contract is awful, no, just no.

Trading for Andrus would be stupid.
 
Hawk said:
There's a pretty significant difference between 'listening to offers' and openly shopping a player.

And what you believe about Oakland trading for Ike Davis and signing Billy Butler to supposedly replace the production that they couldn't get by acquiring a shortstop is an absurd stretch, at best -- but kudos to your ingenuity.
Click to expand...

Andrus contract sucks, stick to copying/pasting twitter posts than talking.
 
Hawk said:
Just like paying BJ Upton $46MM over the next three years.

At least the oral jokes will survive.
Click to expand...

BJ's contract sucks, no one will deny that.

Trading BJ just to get stuck with another bad contract is retarded.
 
Heyward said:
Andrus contract sucks, stick to copying/pasting twitter posts than talking.
Click to expand...

Nice. This coming from a guy (or girl) that can barely put together two coherent sentences.

BTW, I know that making uninformed and unintelligent comments is kind of your thing (and that's cool -- we all have our things) ... but read a little. It helps.
 
Hawk said:
There's a pretty significant difference between 'listening to offers' and openly shopping a player.

And what you believe about Oakland trading for Ike Davis and signing Billy Butler to supposedly replace the production that they couldn't get by acquiring a shortstop is an absurd stretch, at best -- but kudos to your ingenuity.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. And that difference typically lies in either who the reporter breaking the story is or who's feeding said reporter information.

Let's ignore for a moment that Rosenthal is the one saying "The Rangers are willing to deal any of their shortstops, but Elvis Andrus is the least likely to be moved because the team believes 2015 will be a big season for the 26-year-old." while none of the Texas writers have mentioned anything approaching that. As a matter of fact, here's Tim Cowlishaw's take on Andrus...

"So let’s get back to Andrus. At 26, his best offensive season (2012) was only marginally better than what Odor gave this team at 20. Yet because of his glove work — which eludes him at times but remains good — the club chose to reward him with an eight-year deal (that begins this season) as if he were a 20-home run-hitting shortstop.

Actually, that’s exactly what he has done. Only it has taken him six full seasons and more than 3,500 at-bats to reach those 20 homers.

The Rangers can get rid of one of the problems Andrus represents, not by trading him but by simply moving him out of the No. 2 spot. Manager Ron Washington always insisted in having speed in that spot, even if Andrus grew increasingly careless with how he used it. Last season’s 27 steals with 15 times caught stealing represented Elvis at his worst on the base paths.

As a No. 8 hitter, given the fact he can still help the team defensively, Andrus isn’t bad. He’s just badly overpaid. If this team wants to get better right away, it has to live with some of its accounting errors that came about during its brief but inspired run at a championship."

Sound familiar? As in the Braves are just going to have to live with the mistakes that were the B. J. and Uggla contracts???

And not only was 2012 by far Elvis' best offensive season, his numbers have now declined significantly for two consecutive seasons. "Believing 2015 will be a big season for him" is GM-speak. Here's a pretty good comparison for you...

Player A:
Age 23 - .286/.349/.378, 21 SBs, 92 OPS+
Age 24 - .278/.321/.338, 42 SBs, 82 OPS+
Age 25 - .263/.313/.333, 27 SBs, 84 OPS+

Change - -.023/-.036/-.045

Player B:
Age 23 - .273/.383/.401, 44 SBs, 108 OPS+
Age 24 - .241/.313/.373, 44 SBs, 82 OPS+
Age 25 - .237/.322/.424, 42 SBs, 106 OPS+

Change - -.036/-.061/+.023

If everyone proclaiming to have seen B. J. turning into what he has at the time he signed his deal doesn't see similar signs in Andrus' numbers you've got blinders on. The difference? We owe Upton three ~$15 million years - anyone taking on Elvis' contract is taking more than twice as big a gamble.
 
clvclv said:
Absolutely. And that difference typically lies in either who the reporter breaking the story is or who's feeding said reporter information.

Let's ignore for a moment that Rosenthal is the one saying "The Rangers are willing to deal any of their shortstops, but Elvis Andrus is the least likely to be moved because the team believes 2015 will be a big season for the 26-year-old." while none of the Texas writers have mentioned anything approaching that.
Click to expand...

It's pretty foolhardy to dismiss Rosenthal, arguably the preeminent national baseball journalist in the field, just because he's not reporting the same information that Dallas beat writers are (or aren't in this case). When's the last time David O'Brien or Mark Bowman broke a significant story regarding the Braves? It's even more baffling to then prop up Tim Cowlishaw -- who is a columnist (not reporter) -- as a legitimate/knowledgeable/reputable entity.

If everyone proclaiming to have seen B. J. turning into what he has at the time he signed his deal doesn't see similar signs in Andrus' numbers you've got blinders on. The difference? We owe Upton three ~$15 million years - anyone taking on Elvis' contract is taking more than twice as big a gamble.
Click to expand...

It's a gamble, no doubt -- but as I've already mentioned, if the Braves are serious about re-tooling vs. rebuilding, then ridding themselves of BJ Upton's contract is integral to that process. No team is going to trade the Braves any talent for him, and the team majorly loses out if they dump Minor/Gattis just to get rid of BJ.

Look, I've not once in this thread advocated for the Braves to trade Upton straight up for Andrus. I suggested that the only way to make acquiring Andrus potentially worth the risk would be for the Braves to move other pieces in the process in order to obtain some of the Rangers' premium talent in return.

For example:

Justin Upton
BJ Upton
Mike Minor

for

Andrus
Prospect A (top tier: Choice/Williams/Gonzalez/Profar whomever)
Prospect B (mid/low tier)
Cash ($5-10MM)

The Braves clear BJ's $46MM, Justin's $14.5MM, and Minor's ~5MM+ = $65MM
The Braves assume Andrus' $120MM less Upton/Upton/Minor = $55M ... less cash received.
Potential prospect value ($10MM-$30MM)

It's not perfect, but it's far from unreasonable. The Braves kill off a major liability in BJ, move Justin for some top shelf talent, and still have plenty of financial wiggle room to compete moving forward. Add Lester and some OF help and you compete in 2015.

I don't agree with your assessment of Andrus, but also don't deny that the way the numbers are trending is discouraging. That being said, even despite those perceived shortcomings, he could still help the Braves immediately at the top of the order with his speed and on-base ability as well as make a pretty damn good partner with Andrelton at the keystone. Plus, he's still incredibly young and owns the same basic skillset that Texas thought they were investing in when they extended him to begin with. That's way more than can be said for BJ, who is unlikely to ever meaningfully contribute for this club again.
 
The issue with Bossman is he never was the defender Andrus is, and Andrus really doesn't have any farther to fall.

There are alarming trends with Andrus that mean he could go further, he went from 9.5 BB% in 2010 to 8.0 in 2012 to 6.7 last year, while his K rate is about the same.

ANdrus is a terrible contract, If we could swap Bossman for ANdrus and cash considerations (maybe we send some to them short term, they send a lot to us long term, as Andrus is signed for 5 more years at about 75 million more) as part of a bigger Justin or Gattis trade we could be cooking with gas.

Let's theorize 2 trades. First we trade CJ for a bucket of balls, we won't get much more and don't need much more. When he was extended his short term loss was he was highly tradeable his long term potential was a bounceback and he could be an actual asset. So we dump him for a bum. Some 26 year old in A ball.

Then we pull this off. Bossman, Justin, Hale, and Russell for Andrus, about 56M in cash spread out over 8 years as the rangers seem fit as long as payments start by the time BJ is out of contract, Joey Gallo, Alex Gonzalez and Lewis Brinson

So our team looks something like this next year with long term in parenthesis.

C - Bethancourt
1B - Freeman
2B - Andrus
3B - Gallo
SS - Simmons
LF - Gattis (maybe there long term too, if not, who knows, Davidson?)
CF - Cunnigham (Peraza)
RF - Rios (signed to 2 year, long term Brinson, maybe Davidson)

Use our massive savings to splurge on Lester.

Rotation
Lester
Julio
Wood
Minor
Miller

It creates a for sure better long term projection team than we have now. I mean again, ideally I'd rather keep Justin but that seems a forgone conclusion that he's gone.
 
If the Braves are going to chase a former player with a bad contract I would rather they go after Prado.
 
rico43 said:
If the Braves are going to chase a former player with a bad contract I would rather they go after Prado.
Click to expand...

Dalyn just went on suicide watch because of your post.

I'm curious as to why Texas would want J. Upton. They don't appear to be close to contending. I thought the Red Sox would have greater interest, but they seem to be going in different directions with the courting of Ramirez and Sandoval.
 
50PoundHead said:
Dalyn just went on suicide watch because of your post.

I'm curious as to why Texas would want J. Upton. They don't appear to be close to contending. I thought the Red Sox would have greater interest, but they seem to be going in different directions with the courting of Ramirez and Sandoval.
Click to expand...

Like us (for a long time before we got him), Texas and Seattle have always been terribly interested in him. I can't speak for their "whys" other than the supposition that they (like Wren - as amazing as it seems to say it) were a bit ahead of the curve in their recognition that the shortage of true right-handed power hitters who could play in any park was going to be as big a shortage as it is before we landed him (as well as Uggla and gave Gattis his shot).

Texas has always made a little more sense from my point of view because he's always been almost a perfect fit for years - a middle of the lineup of Beltre/Hamilton/Upton before and Beltre/Fielder/Upton now has always been a scary proposition - and money to meet his market has never been a concern there.
 
"The Rangers would also be interested in acquiring a pitcher from the Braves in a deal, a source said."
 
rico43 said:
If the Braves are going to chase a bad always injured former player with an equally bad contract I would rather they go after Prado.
Click to expand...

862135.gif
 
It's not nice to put words in the mouth of a moderator.

Jeez people, Prado wasn't hurt, his freaking appendix nearly blew up on him. Same as it did Heyward, if I recall. He was Yankees' hottest hitter when he went down.
 
Hawk said:
"The Rangers would also be interested in acquiring a pitcher from the Braves in a deal, a source said."
Click to expand...

I suggested this yesterday since the Rangers are also looking to add to the rotation. Since Minor is not under control through 2017, he is a candidate to be packaged with JUp. If JUp is "worth" Taijuan Walker, then I would have to think any package with both JUp and Minor would have to start with Profar and be added to from there.

Profar would solve either 3B or 2B for the next half decade and would be a solid centerpiece in such a deal. I don't know the Rangers' system well enough to suggest what might be added.

EDIT: Just read about Profar's injury. I don't think Odor is enough of a centerpiece for a JUp/Minor package, and since Gallo and Alfaro are supposedly untouchable, I don't see much that the Rangers could offer.
 
I like the idea of packaging Justin, Minor, and BJ together. Saves so much money between now and 2017 that Hart could do just about anything.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top