Braves donate Justin Upton to Padres for prospects

[Heyward]

With the possibility of having a good season. That actually carries a lot of weight despite you not thinking so. Let's not act like the returns we got are going to have much of an impact anytime soon if at all.

We probably wont make the playoffs with them, im a plan ahead type of guy.

So this was the right move.

 

[chop2chip]

Everything is a gamble. There is a strong possibility none of the guys we got except Miller provide anything at the major league level. So not only would we still be stuck with crap we would have also given a way a strong chance to contend one more year.

Yes this is all true like I said... Probabilities. Risk. Reward. None of what you said is wrong, but if you state it in the way you did, then nothing that anybody says is wrong. Because anything can happen.

Those for rebuilding now believe that the time was now. That's not a wrong position. But I don't think you are wrong and I think you have made a lot of valid points. It's just personally too short sighted for my liking. But that also doesn't mean I'm right either.

 

[chop2chip]

I think that's the point many of us are trying to make: neither plan is inherently and entirely unreasonable, there is risk either way, and trading these players is taking a chance just as keeping them would have been. What's annoying are the posters arguing from a position that the Braves had no other choice, their mind-hands were irrevocably shackled, any other path would have been thoroughly ludicrous, et cetera.

That's fine. I respect your point. I see going all in for 2015 as entirely defensible as long as we went all in. I don't personally feel like we had a strong enough roster to contend, but I don't believe it was entirely out of the question either.

I just think there are way too many unknowns for either side to form anything more than an uninformed opinion. Unfortunately, there are a lot of omnipotent posters that assail you for being wrong regardless of what opinion you have.

 

[BedellBrave]

Yes this is all true like I said... Probabilities. Risk. Reward. None of what you said is wrong, but if you state it in the way you did, then nothing that anybody says is wrong. Because anything can happen.

Those for rebuilding now believe that the time was now. That's not a wrong position. But I don't think you are wrong and I think you have made a lot of valid points. It's just personally too short sighted for my liking. But that also doesn't mean I'm right either.

Or even a couple of years ago.

 

[Carp]

Here's another comparable for Smith. Theo Bowe. Had a very similar season in 2012 in the California League at the same age. Anyone know whatever happened to Theo Bowe?

Or how about Billy Hamilton? Or Dee Gordon? Michael Bourn?

For every Jose Constanza, there a plethora of valuable major league players that profiles like Smith. That doesn't mean that Smith is destined to be the next Michael Bourn, but he has the pure talent to be that sort of player. Let's not pretend that he's a fringe talent here. Blazing speed and good on base skills are fairly valuable.

 

[mfree80]

Everything is a gamble. There is a strong possibility none of the guys we got except Miller provide anything at the major league level. So not only would we still be stuck with crap we would have also given a way a strong chance to contend one more year.

I really only have a big issue with one word of this post. You see a "strong" possibility that none of these prospects will contribute anything at the MLB level. I would replace the word "strong" with "slim."

I think the Braves scouting department (especially as now constituted) knows their stuff. These guys were acquired for a reason, not by default as you think, but with a purpose. They each seem to possess a skill set that was severly lacking in the team the last few years. The last two years, the Braves have been a HR or bust type team. Two years ago it worked a bit. Squeaked into the playoffs, but weren't built to compete if the HR was not there. Last year, it did not work nearly as well. The guys they are acquiring seem to have a greater ability to get on base, as well as some speed once they get there.

You see a bunch of weak prospects. I see guys who fit well into a new philosophy.
Last year, I watched the Cardinals just keep getting on base, putting pressure on defenses and pitchers. The Braves didn't do that. I am looking forward to seeing what these guys can do. I am optimistic.

 

[kendiz]

I really only have a big issue with one word of this post. You see a "strong" possibility that none of these prospects will contribute anything at the MLB level. I would replace the word "strong" with "slim."

I think the Braves scouting department (especially as now constituted) knows their stuff. These guys were acquired for a reason, not by default as you think, but with a purpose. They each seem to possess a skill set that was severly lacking in the team the last few years. The last two years, the Braves have been a HR or bust type team. Two years ago it worked a bit. Squeaked into the playoffs, but weren't built to compete if the HR was not there. Last year, it did not work nearly as well. The guys they are acquiring seem to have a greater ability to get on base, as well as some speed once they get there.

You see a bunch of weak prospects. I see guys who fit well into a new philosophy.
Last year, I watched the Cardinals just keep getting on base, putting pressure on defenses and pitchers. The Braves didn't do that. I am looking forward to seeing what these guys can do. I am optimistic.

I agree 100%. It's just like Cuba....it hasn't worked for 50 years....with the Braves it's been 20 years.......

 

[BedellBrave]

I really only have a big issue with one word of this post. You see a "strong" possibility that none of these prospects will contribute anything at the MLB level. I would replace the word "strong" with "slim."

I think the Braves scouting department (especially as now constituted) knows their stuff. These guys were acquired for a reason, not by default as you think, but with a purpose. They each seem to possess a skill set that was severly lacking in the team the last few years. The last two years, the Braves have been a HR or bust type team. Two years ago it worked a bit. Squeaked into the playoffs, but weren't built to compete if the HR was not there. Last year, it did not work nearly as well. The guys they are acquiring seem to have a greater ability to get on base, as well as some speed once they get there.

You see a bunch of weak prospects. I see guys who fit well into a new philosophy.
Last year, I watched the Cardinals just keep getting on base, putting pressure on defenses and pitchers. The Braves didn't do that. I am looking forward to seeing what these guys can do. I am optimistic.

And this is where I am. I appreciate the angst of the posters who had more hope of a bolstered - patched squad for a run in 2015. That's where I was the past couple of years. I've just come around to the above position and am comfortable seeing how it plays out over the next couple of years.

 

[zitothebrave]

Considering our 2014 team was better than that and only won 79 games, no I don't think we would have been contenders.

Aside from the rotation 2014 was not even close to better than that. Simmons will bounce back some, Johnson has his biggest weakness clipped, and we lose our worst player (Uggla) and replace him with a likely very capable platoon of TLS and Peraza.

Do we look better long term? Our rotation has, but our offense is highly debateable, we got back 2 position prospects, neither are locks to be anything. Our farm depth going into this offseason was all pitching, 3 of our best young players are pitchers, all our top prospects are pitchers.

 

[blueagleace1]

Just reading over some of the replies on this thread about the return for ONE year of Upton and it truly baffles me that people think we A.) were going to get a Top 25 prospect and B.) think that the return we did get wasn't very good.

1. Max Fried- Fried is most definitely the centerpiece of the deal and -even though he had TJ surgery- a very good one at that. First and most importantly, had Fried not needed and currently recovering from Tommy John surgery we would have never got him as part of the deal. He has top-of-the-rotation potential and prior to undergoing TJ surgery was ranked my MLB.com as the 31st best prospect in all of baseball, ahead of guys like: Kris Bryant, Yordano Ventura, Trevor Bauer, Kyle Crick, Joc Pederson, Andrew Heany, Clint Frazier, Julio Urias, and Marcus Stroman. With Fried now in place we could have a rotation that looks something like: Teheran, Wood, Fried, Miller, Minor when we open SunTrust Park in 2017.

2. Jace Peterson- Peterson is a similar hitter to Tommy LaStella (high average, low K's, with lots of BB's) but with MUCH more speed. Besides the speed difference between the two, Peterson -unlike LaStella- can play multiple positions including 2B, SS, and 3B. He will be a very nice piece to have on our ball club for the foreseeable future. Prior to the 2014 season (he accumulated too much service time to still be considered a prospect) he was rated as the Padres 10th best prospect by MLB.com and the 7th best by Baseball America.

3. Dustin Peterson- Peterson who is the brother of highly regarded Mariners prospect D.J Peterson plays the same position as his brother (3B). It has been said that at the same age, Dustin is considered to be the superior offensive player of the two and should give the Braves another 3B prospect to go along with Kyle Kubitza and the newly acquired Jace Peterson. Dustin's defense remains a question and it's been stated that some scouts believe he will eventually need to change positions to either first base or the outfield, but with the lack of third base prospects in our system I would imagine they give him every chance to stick at the hot corner.

4. Mallex Smith- Smith instantly becomes our best OF prospect in the organization and mainly because of his 80+ speed. Smith has drawn comparisons to Ben Revere but with more gap-to-gap power. I would imagine that Smith is our future CF whenever the time comes that the elder Upton is gone.

It's pretty apparent that the front office is targeting guys who put the ball in play, don't strike out, play good defense and can steal a base when needed.

As tough as it is to trade away a player like Justin Upton, we must consider that there was really no chance that we were going to sign him to an extension (I would have loved that) and the return we did get is much greater than the comp draft pick we would have gotten when Upton rejected the qualifying offer. Another thing to consider is the amount of money we saved in this deal can be used on a veteran SP, bench help, or even go towards signing a young international player like Moncada. So before everyone starts to crucify John Hart for centering a deal around a pitcher that just had Tommy John surgery just remember that had Fried not needed that surgery, there is no chance whatsoever that we would have been able to acquire him.

Another point to consider about the return we got is that we hired Chad MacDonald as a special assistant to the GM and he was previously over player personnel for the Padres, so if anyone would know these prospects it's him!!

 

[holden]

There are current franchises such as the Giants and the Cardinals that sort of buck the "crapshoot" line. It'd be nice to be in their shoes in 2 years.

Not sure how you can say that. The Giants were a Wild Card team last year that might not have even been in the playoffs if there weren't two Wild Cards now and likely don't win the title in 2010 either if Posey is called out correctly at 2nd base (or if replay had been in effect). And the Cardinals were lucky enough to be in a terrible division as a mediocre team that got hot in 2006.

You're imposing a narrative to random events. Pretty common mistake that teams make that leads to errors like the ones we've made this offseason.

 

[emk418]

I still think just the top 4 of our rotation will keep us competitive. I'm not saying we're going to make the playoffs as a wild card by any means but our rotation is pretty strong.

 

[nsacpi]

I still think just the top 4 of our rotation will keep us competitive. I'm not saying we're going to make the playoffs as a wild card by any means but our rotation is pretty strong.

I think we're a 75-80 win team with the current personnel. With some similar luck to the Royals and Orioles last year (in terms of out-performing projections) we could contend for the playoffs. With bad luck (or not depending on how you view it) we're contenders for the top draft pick in 2015.

 

[nsacpi]

Not sure how you can say that. The Giants were a Wild Card team last year that might not have even been in the playoffs if there weren't two Wild Cards now and likely don't win the title in 2010 either if Posey is called out correctly at 2nd base (or if replay had been in effect). And the Cardinals were lucky enough to be in a terrible division as a mediocre team that got hot in 2006.

You're imposing a narrative to random events. Pretty common mistake that teams make that leads to errors like the ones we've made this offseason.

I think Bochy and LaRussa have been difference makers in the post-season for the Giants and Cards.

 

[Runnin]

The hiring of John Hart should've signaled the FO wanted to go in this direction. Wren could not have made these changes to "his team" and it would've been too much to put on a younger, less experienced GM. This selective dismantling needed a guy with Hart's credentials.

 

[Russ2dollas]

Heyward I get. Miller is a long term answer to a key spot. Argue about his value and heyward but we have 3 more years with miller.

Upton trade doesn't do that. We have a guy who could jump sims and Jenkins as our top starting arm prospect. We don't get any answers. We get a shot at a guy who hart said will be speculated at 2018 a LaStella with better d and some low probability guys.

For this to work at all we need the pitching to be amazing and for simba ff or cb to step up a level and stay there

 

[cajunrevenge]

We can always resign Justin after he puts up a .780 ops for the Padres. Why do you think the main 2 suitors were the Padres and mariners.

 

[BedellBrave]

Not sure how you can say that. The Giants were a Wild Card team last year that might not have even been in the playoffs if there weren't two Wild Cards now and likely don't win the title in 2010 either if Posey is called out correctly at 2nd base (or if replay had been in effect). And the Cardinals were lucky enough to be in a terrible division as a mediocre team that got hot in 2006.

You're imposing a narrative to random events. Pretty common mistake that teams make that leads to errors like the ones we've made this offseason.

In the past 10 years the Giants have won 3 World Series and the Cardinals 2. The Giants have been in 3 WS and the Cardinals have been in 3. In the past 10 years the Giants and Cardinals have won 3 League Pennants each. Giants have been in 3 and the Cardinals 5.

I'd take either record. And I don't think I'd use the words "random" or "crapshoot" with either team.

 

[Tapate50]

In the past 10 years the Giants have won 3 World Series and the Cardinals 2. The Giants have been in 3 WS and the Cardinals have been in 3. In the past 10 years the Giants and Cardinals have won 3 League Pennants each. Giants have been in 3 and the Cardinals 5.

I'd take either record. And I don't think I'd use the words "random" or "crapshoot" with either team.

How many superstar position players does SF have? What do they have? Pitching. A ton of it.

 

[Tapate50]

In the past 10 years the Giants have won 3 World Series and the Cardinals 2. The Giants have been in 3 WS and the Cardinals have been in 3. In the past 10 years the Giants and Cardinals have won 3 League Pennants each. Giants have been in 3 and the Cardinals 5.

I'd take either record. And I don't think I'd use the words "random" or "crapshoot" with either team.

How many superstar position players does SF have?

What do they have?