Braves expecting to make QO to Santana.

Carp said:
Yes but counting Floyd and Harang, we know have to replace 450 innings of quality pitching. We currently don't have a in house solutions to do that. So we're going to have to sign at least 1 pitcher
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Why don't we re-sign Floyd?
Fangraphs is predicting $5 mil for him.
 
yeezus said:
Why don't we re-sign Floyd?
Fangraphs is predicting $5 mil for him.
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That could turn out to be $1 million per inning.

I'm a bit surprised with the QO to Santana, but it's nice to see ownership give this edition of team leadership the tools to make decisions like this. I don't know if I sign Santana to a long-term deal, but he's a solid pitcher and at one year, he'd be an effective bridge to the point where Uggla's contract is off the books and we can play a bit more aggressively in free agency.

I'm curious to see what will transpire. I'm guessing Santana and Floyd could both be Braves again in 2015.
 
In Hart I trust. It's a win-win. Either we get him for a year with the possibility of dealing him in July or keep him because we are competing or, if he doesn't take it, we get a pick. No brainer here.
 
What is the starting pitching market looking like this year for free agents? If Santana couldn't get a multi year deal last year, why will he this year? And finally, say we accepts and we aren't able to trade him. What implications does that have for our payroll this year?
 
NYCBrave said:
What is the starting pitching market looking like this year for free agents? If Santana couldn't get a multi year deal last year, why will he this year? And finally, say we accepts and we aren't able to trade him. What implications does that have for our payroll this year?
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If he accepts and we don't trade him, it would put payroll at about 115M. Assuming we don't move any significant contracts.
 
Santana is getting really boned here. The Players' Union should really try and renegotiate this situation and make it so folks can't get offered a QO two years running.
 
It's a no brainer to offer the QO, but there is absolutely no reason to go long-term on a pitcher like Santana unless he is willing to do a short (2-3 yr) deal at significant below market value, which seems highly unlikely considering Santana's past negotiations with other teams. While I like Santana, and believe he is a quality pitcher, and we need some inning eaters in the short-term to go with our young guns, there is no reason to tie up money in a pitcher like him at his age in the budget, considering our constraints.

I don't know what the market will be for Santana and how much interest he will garner, but I would perfectly be happy with a BJ for Burhle move, along with bringing back Floyd and Medlen to incentive laden deals to fill out the rotation and create depth.
 
Millwood1Hitter said:
It's a no brainer to offer the QO, but there is absolutely no reason to go long-term on a pitcher like Santana unless he is willing to do a short (2-3 yr) deal at significant below market value, which seems highly unlikely considering Santana's past negotiations with other teams. While I like Santana, and believe he is a quality pitcher, and we need some inning eaters in the short-term to go with our young guns, there is no reason to tie up money in a pitcher like him at his age in the budget, considering our constraints.

I don't know what the market will be for Santana and how much interest he will garner, but I would perfectly be happy with a BJ for Burhle move, along with bringing back Floyd and Medlen to incentive laden deals to fill out the rotation and create depth.
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Yeah...the Extent Santana for 3-4 years Movement makes no sense. We have higher priorities. How about extenting Heyward. Or Justin.

I suspect our rotation will look like this:

1. Minor
2. Teheran
3. Wood
4. Veteran acquired as part of a deal to move BJ's contract (Buehrle, Jackson, Dickey are candidates).
5. Cheap internal option (from among Hale, Martin, Thomas and some others).

We will also probably take a flyer on a cheap currently injured starter for additional depth.
 
There is a large group of second tier pitchers below Lester/Scherzer/Shields that are all pretty comparable. MLBTR has been predicting all of them to sign 2-3 year contracts at around $12M-$13M per year, so it looks like that is the going rate for an established mid-rotation starter. Santana might very well be considered the top 1-2 guys of that 2nd tier, but the loss of a draft pick is going to hurt his value a bit.

I think it is a forgone conclusion the Braves will have to sign a FA pitcher for the rotation.

I would like to see the Braves play this FA move unlike they have ever played the FA market. Rather than jumping at a guy early and overpaying like they did for BJ Upton, I would like to see them wait until a couple guys are sitting out there without an offer and then scoop him up for a relative bargain. Try to get one of those $12M pitchers for $10M. Wouldn't that be refreshing for once?
 
nsacpi said:
Yeah...the Extent Santana for 3-4 years Movement makes no sense. We have higher priorities. How about extenting Heyward. Or Justin.

I suspect our rotation will look like this:

1. Minor
2. Teheran
3. Wood
4. Veteran acquired as part of a deal to move BJ's contract (Buehrle, Jackson, Dickey are candidates).
5. Cheap internal option (from among Hale, Martin, Thomas and some others).

We will also probably take a flyer on a cheap currently injured starter for additional depth.
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Yea I think that's pretty likely. Teheran/Wood/Minor is our top 3 then sign a veteran out of Ervin/Hammel/Liriano/Masterson/Wandy(if healthy). 5th spot is a battle in ST between Hale/Martin/Hursh/or one of Medlen/Beachy
 
Enscheff said:
There is a large group of second tier pitchers below Lester/Scherzer/Shields that are all pretty comparable. MLBTR has been predicting all of them to sign 2-3 year contracts at around $12M-$13M per year, so it looks like that is the going rate for an established mid-rotation starter. Santana might very well be considered the top 1-2 guys of that 2nd tier, but the loss of a draft pick is going to hurt his value a bit.

I think it is a forgone conclusion the Braves will have to sign a FA pitcher for the rotation.

I would like to see the Braves play this FA move unlike they have ever played the FA market. Rather than jumping at a guy early and overpaying like they did for BJ Upton, I would like to see them wait until a couple guys are sitting out there without an offer and then scoop him up for a relative bargain. Try to get one of those $12M pitchers for $10M. Wouldn't that be refreshing for once?
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In some cases it is the years not the $/year that is an issue. Jason Vargas went to the Royals because they gave him a fourth year, which the other teams didn't want to do.

I suspect we will get our fourth starter via trade. To take on salary we have to move some. Not necessarily in the same deal. But most likely it is BJ plus cash and/or prospects for a pitcher with a somewhat burdensome contract.
 
How much do you think BJ would be worth per year over the remaining 3 years of his deal? At his absolute worst he is a 4th OFer capable of playing CF and contributing on the base paths. He is still a young premium pure athlete (one of the best in MLB), so there is also a non-zero chance he could figure it out and once again become a dynamic player.

So what salary would a player like that be worth to a team with a decent sized payroll that can afford to take a gamble on a player like BJ?

Less than $5M per year maybe? If that is all the Braves can save, why not just keep him on the roster and use him as a 4th OFer?
 
Enscheff said:
How much do you think BJ would be worth per year over the remaining 3 years of his deal? At his absolute worst he is a 4th OFer capable of playing CF and contributing on the base paths. He is still a young premium pure athlete (one of the best in MLB), so there is also a non-zero chance he could figure it out and once again become a dynamic player.

So what salary would a player like that be worth to a team with a decent sized payroll that can afford to take a gamble on a player like BJ?

Less than $5M per year maybe? If that is all the Braves can save, why not just keep him on the roster and use him as a 4th OFer?
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That's fine and all, but you also have to take the clubhouse dynamic into the equation as well, it is pretty well known that the clubhouse was not cohesive this year, and a large part of that is due in part to BJ's attitude.

Could BJ rebound: Yes, odds are that he isn't as bad as he has been the past 2 years BUT
Could BJ possibly live up to his potential with some changes and a different approach: Possibly, but if he hasn't figured the game out by now, I don't know if he ever will.

I'm sorry, but I want the guy gone. He's a cancer in a bad clubhouse, and his skillset doesn't necessarily mesh with the needs of the way the team is currently and will be constructed in the future.
 
Millwood1Hitter said:
That's fine and all, but you also have to take the clubhouse dynamic into the equation as well, it is pretty well known that the clubhouse was not cohesive this year, and a large part of that is due in part to BJ's attitude.

Could BJ rebound: Yes, odds are that he isn't as bad as he has been the past 2 years BUT
Could BJ possibly live up to his potential with some changes and a different approach: Possibly, but if he hasn't figured the game out by now, I don't know if he ever will.

I'm sorry, but I want the guy gone. He's a cancer in a bad clubhouse, and his skillset doesn't necessarily mesh with the needs of the way the team is currently and will be constructed in the future.
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How do we know that it was BJ's fault for the clubhouse not being cohesive and he was a cancer? I certainly agree with your last part that his skillset doesn't necessarily mesh.
 
NYCBrave said:
How do we know that it was BJ's fault for the clubhouse not being cohesive and he was a cancer? I certainly agree with your last part that his skillset doesn't necessarily mesh.
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Well, did you watch the same games I watched this past year....you know the one's where BJ loafed on more plays offensively and defensively than probably the rest of the team combined. How about the same BJ that complained about everything from the strike zone and the mentality that everything is not his fault. How about the BJ that while mic'd on first base talking to LaRoche calling his manager a dumb MF'er....sorry things don't add up to a great teamate, especially when you take into consideration his past in TB.
 
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