Braves in talks w/ NL West club

emk418 said:
I love Simmons but I'm all for trading him for multiple pieces. IMO we absolutely should deal him if we get the right offer
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I'm torn. I love Simmons and don't like the idea of losing him so quickly after we lost Heyward. Those were my two favorite players on the team for a few years.

That said, while Simmons is relatively cheap, he starts becoming quite a bit less cheap in 2019 and 2020 when he starts making $13 million+. That's still not a bad deal but it's suddenly not really much in the way of savings. So part of me wants to keep Simmons forever, and part of me understands that as insane as his defensive ability is, and as fun as it is to watch, everything has value, and a player without offensive contributions who starts to approach 30 as his contract increases starts to lose value pretty quickly. So there's also a part of me that wouldn't mind getting a ton for him now.

The problem, though, is that while Albies may be ready by 2018 or even by some chance at some point in 2017, it would leave a massive black hole at SS now.
 
smootness said:
I'm torn. I love Simmons and don't like the idea of losing him so quickly after we lost Heyward. Those were my two favorite players on the team for a few years.

That said, while Simmons is relatively cheap, he starts becoming quite a bit less cheap in 2019 and 2020 when he starts making $13 million+. That's still not a bad deal but it's suddenly not really much in the way of savings. So part of me wants to keep Simmons forever, and part of me understands that as insane as his defensive ability is, and as fun as it is to watch, everything has value, and a player without offensive contributions who starts to approach 30 as his contract increases starts to lose value pretty quickly. So there's also a part of me that wouldn't mind getting a ton for him now.

The problem, though, is that while Albies may be ready by 2018 or even by some chance at some point in 2017, it would leave a massive black hole at SS now.
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I disagree. Simmons, assuming he's no better or worse than he is right now, would likely be worth over 20 million a year in 2019 and 2020.
 
thewupk said:
I disagree. Simmons, assuming he's no better or worse than he is right now, would likely be worth over 20 million a year in 2019 and 2020.
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That's a pretty big assumption considering he'd be heading into his 30s in 2020 and his value is tied to his great range.
 
The Don said:
If we aren't spending money on Price we aren't on Greinke. And if we can't afford a cheap contract like Andrelton's for the best defensive player in the league sounds to me we aren't spending on free agents either.
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exactly, just like the lies we were told last off season

and at the end of all this, we not only kept Fredi but we extended him

i'm over our front office
 
auyushu said:
That's a pretty big assumption considering he'd be heading into his 30s in 2020 and his value is tied to his great range.
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Most all-time great defenders at short stayed that way well into their 30's. I see no reason why Tron can't be on average a 3 WAR player the rest of his contract. And I know baseball salary inflation can only go so high but average players are now making like 15 million a year. What will they make 5 years from now? Tron is an above average player. You do the math.
 
thewupk said:
I disagree. Simmons, assuming he's no better or worse than he is right now, would likely be worth over 20 million a year in 2019 and 2020.
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Well, the statement you quoted referred literally just to the absolute monetary value. Simmons will absolutely become less cheap come 2019-2020 than he is now because his salary will increase quite a bit. You could argue he will still be as cheap relatively speaking because all other contract values will also increase, but I doubt they more than double like Simmons' will.

But yes, I did also mention value, but I think it's pretty reasonable to expect that his relative value will decrease at least to some degree because he will be more expensive (and likely still more expensive relative to the rest of the league) and will probably see at least some decrease in his defensive value. Could he make up for that with increased offensive value? Yes, but I'm just making a prediction.
 
goldfly said:
**** our front office and the old brass if this goes down

i melted after the Heyward trade and getting rid of Simmons would pretty much put me to 2nd class fan that only shows up on opening day for the most part
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And I thought you said you'd never be back then.
 
thewupk said:
I disagree. Simmons, assuming he's no better or worse than he is right now, would likely be worth over 20 million a year in 2019 and 2020.
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$20 million might be a little steep if he doesn't hit a little better, but certainly $15 million or more IMO.
 
For those who mentioned how badly Arenado "wants out of Colorado", please post links. That's a pretty dumb thing to say without proof. Players here weren't happy when Heyward was traded (including his best friend Freddie Freeman), but no one asked to be traded because that happened.

As for a non pie-in-the-sky trade that might work for both sides...

Simmons, Maybin, and Tyrell Jenkins for CarGo and Ryan McMahon.

Why it works for the Braves: They get their 3B of the future and a HUGE offensive upgrade (and opportunity to move Markakis' arm to LF where it fits better these days) without having to spend on the Heyward/Upton/Cespedes level (long-term). Whether it's this year not, who knows? But McMahon will be ready by 2017 for sure.

CF- Bourn/Smith, 3B- Olivera, 1B- Freeman, RF- Gonzalez, LF- Markakis, C- Pierzynski/Bethancourt, SS- Castro/Ciriaco, 2B- Peterson

If Arenado proves ready soon, you can still continue to add prospects by trading CarGo or Olivera.

Why it works for the Rockies: They get Simmons to be their long-term SS (and settle any questions or concerns players had), and more pitching (which they can't get on the open market). Blackmon slides over to RF, Chris Dickerson moves to CF, and Maybin plays LF. The Rockies clear $14 million in salary (difference between CarGo and Simmons (2016/2017) and Maybin (2016 plus 2017 buyout)) to deal with the Reyes situation (or use in an extension for Arenado if they don't have to wriggle out of the rest of the money due Reyes - in which case they'd be able to cover his extension). If Andrelton's ever going to be an above-average offensive player, it'd certainly be there.

RF- Blackmon, 2B- LeMahieu, CF- Dickerson, 3B- Arenado, 1B- Paulsen/Rosario, LF- Maybin, C- Hundley, SS- Simmons
 
I'll wait and see if we trade him and what we get back in return before I go jumping off any cliffs.

Ideally, if we can get a big bat to protect Freeman, I'd do it.
 
@Buster_ESPN: Sources say the Angels are among the teams in conversation with the Braves about Andrelton Simmons. Erick Aybar under contract for 1 more yr

And now it's looking legit:
 
Just read the Angels have checked in as well.. They dont seem like a good trade partner. What could they possibly offer us that'd help us now, other than trout which isnt happening?
 
Being open to trading Simmons has as much to do with Ozhaino Albies as anything. The Braves are really high on him and I think they feel like he's their future at SS. Simmons has a ton of value right now considering he's signed to a very affordable contract for the next 5 years. So the Braves are open to talking.

I just hope they don't do anything rash simply because they want to make a move and Simmons is one of their few big chips. There's absolutely no pressing reason to trade Simmons. Albies has never played above Rome is still at least a year away, probably two or three. So we don't have a logjam. Simmons' contract is very affordable now and in the future and we're not pressed for cash so the money's not an issue. The Braves hold all the chips here so they don't need to trade him unless they get the right offer.

The Padres are apparently interested and there are some interesting possibilities there. Hunter Renfroe is their top prospect and would bring a power bat that's close to being ready. However, he profiles as a corner outfielder and we seem committed to Markakis and Olivera there. I'd still Renfroe. If he starts the year in Gwinnett and tears the cover off the ball you could try to move Olivera back to third or see if any team is interested in trading for Olivera or Markakis. I do wonder if the Pads would be willing to part with him though.

The only other guy in the Padres top 5 I'd be interested in is Travis Jankowski. He can absolutely fly, makes good contact, and knows how to take a walk. That's a good combination. The problem is we have a very similar guy in Mallex Smith. Also, I doubt Jankowski is enough of a return to build a deal around.

Sherman mentioned the Dodgers and Angels as being interested as well. The Angels have one very interesting name. Sean Newcomb would add yet another power lefty and frontline starter prospect to our stable of young arms. Watching the Mets this year convinces me more than ever how many sins a top line rotation can cover. If you could somehow pry Newcomb from the Angels I'd be thrilled.

The Dodgers easily have the most to offer but at the same time I'd the most wary of them. After the jobbing of us they did in the Olivera deal, I'm afraid of what they'd pull. Still, there are some really interesting names here. I'd love to somehow pry Seager away from them but don't see it as likely. He'd be a cornerstone we could build around at 3B but I think he's tabbed there for the Dodgers. I could see the Dodgers wanting to give us Justin Turner after the year he had but I wouldn't touch him. He fell to earth in the second half and is an injury risk. Also at 30 and a free agent after 16 I can't see us biting.

Alex Gurrero is an interesting name. He's another Cuban signed by the Dodgers and he shredded minor league pitching but has struggled in limited action in the majors. He would slide in at third immediately and, if he adjusts, give the Braves a dangerous and affordable bat there. The Dodgers have absolutely no use for him so he'd definitely be available. His contract is a bit odd but that could be overcome.

Ultimately, I think we probably match up best with the Dodgers. They have the deepest system by far and have some spare bats. I could see us building a deal that centers on Simmons and Guerrero.

EDIT: Looking deeper into it, Guerrero can become a free agent after 17 so we'd only get him for 2 year guaranteed and if he hits he'll command a lot to keep. We'd probably need more than just Guerrero but I would have said the same about Olivera.
 
smootness said:
Well, the statement you quoted referred literally just to the absolute monetary value. Simmons will absolutely become less cheap come 2019-2020 than he is now because his salary will increase quite a bit. You could argue he will still be as cheap relatively speaking because all other contract values will also increase, but I doubt they more than double like Simmons' will.

But yes, I did also mention value, but I think it's pretty reasonable to expect that his relative value will decrease at least to some degree because he will be more expensive (and likely still more expensive relative to the rest of the league) and will probably see at least some decrease in his defensive value. Could he make up for that with increased offensive value? Yes, but I'm just making a prediction.
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Yes anybody in Simmons situation will become less cheap as they get closer to the back end of a deal that they signed while still in their pre-FA years. Simmons contract is still an insanely great value right now and he will still be underpaid by quite a bit the last 2 years of it assuming his performance doesnt tank
 
clvclv said:
For those who mentioned how badly Arenado "wants out of Colorado", please post links. That's a pretty dumb thing to say without proof. Players here weren't happy when Heyward was traded (including his best friend Freddie Freeman), but no one asked to be traded because that happened.

As for a non pie-in-the-sky trade that might work for both sides...

Simmons, Maybin, and Tyrell Jenkins for CarGo and Ryan McMahon.

Why it works for the Braves: They get their 3B of the future and a HUGE offensive upgrade (and opportunity to move Markakis' arm to LF where it fits better these days) without having to spend on the Heyward/Upton/Cespedes level (long-term). Whether it's this year not, who knows? But McMahon will be ready by 2017 for sure.

CF- Bourn/Smith, 3B- Olivera, 1B- Freeman, RF- Gonzalez, LF- Markakis, C- Pierzynski/Bethancourt, SS- Castro/Ciriaco, 2B- Peterson

If Arenado proves ready soon, you can still continue to add prospects by trading CarGo or Olivera.

Why it works for the Rockies: They get Simmons to be their long-term SS (and settle any questions or concerns players had), and more pitching (which they can't get on the open market). Blackmon slides over to RF, Chris Dickerson moves to CF, and Maybin plays LF. The Rockies clear $14 million in salary (difference between CarGo and Simmons (2016/2017) and Maybin (2016 plus 2017 buyout)) to deal with the Reyes situation (or use in an extension for Arenado if they don't have to wriggle out of the rest of the money due Reyes - in which case they'd be able to cover his extension). If Andrelton's ever going to be an above-average offensive player, it'd certainly be there.

RF- Blackmon, 2B- LeMahieu, CF- Dickerson, 3B- Arenado, 1B- Paulsen/Rosario, LF- Maybin, C- Hundley, SS- Simmons
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This gets a big no for me.

Cargo was horrible in 2014 and good but not great in 2015 and is set to make about 38M over the next 2 seasons. Way more than he's been worth.

To me trading Cargo without a heaping amount of cash is a net gain for Colorado, so you're trading basically Simmons and Jenkins for McMahon, which to me is insanely bad.
 
Joel Sherman of the New York Post hears that the Braves are indeed listening to offers for Simmons, and they’ve been in recent contact with the Padres, Dodgers and Angels (three Twitter links). The Braves recognize the weak free-agent market at shortstop and want to at least see what the return would be for Simmons considering how valuable he is. Sherman adds that the Mets haven’t checked in on Simmons yet, perhaps assuming that the Braves wouldn’t deal him within the NL East.
 
I agree striker about the Dodgers. They have a few top prospects, and one of them would have to be involved or no deal. Gurrrero, Urias, De Leon, and Pederson are all good and we would need 2 of them or its no deal bc if someone doesn't overpay then we keep him. He's cheap and doesn't have to be traded. Urias is a beast and probably is untouchable so Guerro, De Leon, Peraza, and a bullpen piece or Simmons and Jenkins. Or something along those lines.
 
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