Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Arenado is a Boras client, i'll pass.
Braves interested in Chris Sale...
- Thread starter blueagleace1
- Start date
Arenado is a Boras client, i'll pass.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
thats news to me and the Braves organization.
Well, I said no less than 4 top prospects, not 5. And by 1 or 2 top 100ish I meant around the top hundred not necessarily in it. Basically I see them getting 3 out of the top 5 prospects of a really good farm system and 1 or two pieces in their top 10-15. By all accounts they are currently asking for 5 top prospects right now though. And obviously the higher the value of the top prospects in the deal, the less value the lower ones would need. I would expect something along the lines of Swanson or Albies, Newcomb, Allard or Soroka, and one of Sims/Riley/Fried would be the minimum we'd have to give up in a Braves trade for Sale.
And there has never been a trade where a guy like Sale has been traded with three years of control left on a super team friendly deal either, so I fail to see what past history has to do with anything. The only time I can remember a true Ace type getting dealt in the past they only had 1 to 1.5 years left on their deal. The best comparison I could make would be the Hamels deal. Hamels was dealt for Matt Harrison, a top 40ish prospect, a top 50ish prospect, and a top 75ish prospect, and two other pieces. SO basically the Phils got the around the value of 4 top 100 prospects for Hamels. And Hamels was 32, didn't have a super team friendly deal, and had a 3.60 or higher ERA in two of the three years before he was dealt (including the year of being dealt). If Hamels got that much when not even being considered an Ace anymore, you can bet Sale is going to get more.
And who said anything about being worth that? I certainly don't think so, I wouldn't touch Sale with a ten foot pole.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
I would offer Sims, Newcomb, Inciarte, Albies and Ruiz.
Given them trading Sale pretty much signals a total rebuild I'd doubt they'd have interest in Inciarte, and his value has dropped like a rock this year anyway. Sub in Soroka or Fried for Inciarte and I think that's about it would take.
And unless the FO is planning on signing Desmond for 3B and Cespedes for LF this offseason, hopefully they wouldn't be foolish enough to make that sort of trade.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Inciarte is still very young with tons of control left. That being said I would like to keep him unless we get a big offer
I'm sure they are asking for 5 top prospects . But that doesn't mean that's what they will actually get that. And 5 top prospects does not necessarily equal 5 top 100 prospects.
And I can't find one such trade in which even 4 top 100 prospects were traded for 1 guy. Among trades for TOR pitchers, Miller, Shields, Halladay, Lee, Greinke. You can debate the merits of each one of those, but the fact remains that there simply isn't any precedent for such a trade
If they do end up trading Sale, I'd honestly be surprised if they got more than 2 or 3 top 100 prospects. More than likely if they trade for prospects only, then they'll get two of a teams top 5, two more from the the 5-10 range, and a throw in type of guy.
NinersSBChamps
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br> 2015 (Co-Winner)</BR>20
If you think his bat will come around, sure. Seems like they made the wrong decision with Simmons so it would be best to keep Ender around and wait.
First of all, MIller and Shields were not TOR/Ace pitchers when traded (they were both considered #2 starters), so they don't even belong in this discussion. And as I mentioned in my post, typically guys aren't traded unless they have very little control left. Lee, Halladay, and Grienke were all coming up on FA when traded. Grienke was the closest at 2 years control, but he had been very up and down as a pitcher and wasn't on the same level as what Sale has done the past 4-5 years.
And I already gave you the example from last year that's closer than any guy you mentioned with the Hamels trade. The Phils got 3 top 100 prospects and 3 other pieces for Hamels, and Sale is thought of much more highly and thought to have much more value than Hamels was last year at this time. If Hamels got 3 top 100 prospects, I'm not sure how the heck you figure Sale wouldn't be able to get 4.
NinersSBChamps
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br> 2015 (Co-Winner)</BR>20
If anyone doesn't think Sale would net a huge return they are kidding themselves. While my definition of "huge" probably differs from the majority of people here. People love to overrate prospects specifically their own teams. Bottom line is Sale would require at least three top organizational prospects, maybe something from the major league level, and another low league minor league player. I think four players at least gets the White Sox attention to start with.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
This is what i think it will cost as well.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
How did they make the wrong decision with Simmons? His bat is just as terrible as it always was. Inciarte at least was very good with the bat last year... He's been hampered with nagging injuries this year.
Hudson2
Well-known member
I'd still trade for him and extend him. I know it would cost a lot but if we are trading that kind of package make it a hitter.
If our FO thinks we're going to compete next year, I'm worried about them.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Depends on the definition of "competitive." I think with the payroll available this off-season, we're likely to put a team that's about .500.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Which is really scary since pretty much EVERYBODY else including most fans can look at this 110 loss club and see that 2017 is going to be a disaster record wise (maybe lesser, 90 losses) and that 2018 looks like the year when some of the young talent might have a chance to be impactful.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Only if they go out and sign some guys that they will regret signing in 2018 and 2019 and losing payroll flexibility that they will miss having after 2017.
Because it's never happened before, that why. There is no precedent for it. I forgot about Hamels, but saying Sale is "much more highly thought of" is hardly true. And let's not forget that Texas also received a valuable reliever and unloaded Harrison's contract, both of which accounted for at least a portion of the return that Philly received.
Can't imagine that a rumor that the Braves were "interested" was anything other than an assumption by someone or a smokescreen to disguise potential interest in someone like Matt Moore - I can't fathom Coppy & Company unloading the system they've worked so hard to stock before they're truly in a position to win.
Moore makes all the sense in the world as a target IMO - we need a lefty that's ready, and could package secondary pieces to get him - Sims or Fried, one of d'Arnaud, Peterson, Dykstra, or Obregon, and Acuna for Moore would be a solid trade I'd think.
Julio, Moore, Folty, Wisler, Jenkins/Gant/Perez/Blair/Ellis/Whalen/Newcomb would be a nice combo to open the new park with.
Moore makes all the sense in the world as a target IMO - we need a lefty that's ready, and could package secondary pieces to get him - Sims or Fried, one of d'Arnaud, Peterson, Dykstra, or Obregon, and Acuna for Moore would be a solid trade I'd think.
Julio, Moore, Folty, Wisler, Jenkins/Gant/Perez/Blair/Ellis/Whalen/Newcomb would be a nice combo to open the new park with.
And who would they sign after 2017? Machado? Donaldson? Harper?
Hate to break it to everyone, but the Braves are going to be living in the realm of 2nd and 3rd tier FAs even when they move to the new park. Whether they sign some of those sub-$100M contracts this offseason or subsequent offseasons, they will always be shopping in the same FA zone.
And no, the braves have no business making a run at Sale. If they unload that kind of prospect package it needs to be for a hitter. Just hearing this rumor is giving even more doubts this FO can construct a competitive MLB roster.