Braves interested in Chris Sale...

auyushu said:
I don't think cube has updated all the prospects yet really, I notice they partially did Swanson.

:happy0157: But please, you claimed he was a consensus top 30 prospect. He was ranked 41 on BP's list and he's not even in the top 30 on BA.
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Again, my original claim was based on what Cube showed... and yes... 33 is really far from 30, I know...
 
zbhargrove said:
Again, my original claim was based on what Cube showed... and yes... 33 is really far from 30, I know...
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I'm not going to argue semantics with you, but a refusal to admit when one is wrong even when it is glaringly obvious is a bit sad. You might want to go over the whole consensus part of your statement there again. Regardless, while he is a definitely a good prospect who I like a fair bit, he is not in any way shape or form a consensus top 30 prospect right now.
 
auyushu said:
I'm not going to argue semantics with you, but a refusal to admit when one is wrong even when it is glaringly obvious is a bit sad. You might want to go over the whole consensus part of your statement there again. Regardless, while he is a definitely a good prospect who I like a fair bit, he is not in any way shape or form a consensus top 30 prospect right now.
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I pretty clearly admitted I was wrong and stated where the misinformation came from. I shouldn't have said consensus... I had a memory on top of the cube rankings of the midseason lists and it was wrong. Sounds like he's basically a top 40 prospect... I apologize that I was 10 spots off...
 
zbhargrove said:
I'd argue about him being a "dominant ace" this year, however... his ERA is up (for him) and his K rate is way down.
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His ERA is barely over three in the AL and he has a shot at 20 wins with very few losses. If he were in the NL that would be even better with facing pitchers instead of the DH. He's pretty impressive and while his K-rate is down it is said he has tried to pitch more to contact too in order to go deeper into games. Not saying I agree, just what I have read and I'm pretty sure his average innings per start are not much better in doing so.
 
Jay2033 said:
So say if the Braves were to pull off this deal. This off season they could then go after some big hitters like Cespedes/Desmond, Wieters/Ramos, Turner. Just imagine this lineup and rotation.

Lineup:

Mallex Smith - CF

Dansby Swanson - SS

Freddie Freeman - 1B

Yoenis Cespdes/Ian Desmond - RF/LF

Matt Wieters/Wilson Ramos - C

Justin Turner - 3B

Nick Markakis - RF/LF

Ozzie Albies - 2B

Rotation:

Chris Sale - LHP

Julio Teheran - RHP

Mike Folty - RHP

Gant/Perez/Jenkins/Whalen/Newcomb/Sims - 4th/5th
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I'll believe we sign Cespedes, Ramos or Wieters, AND a 3B when I see it.

Does anyone have a number for our total salaries next year at present?
 
Braves1976 said:
His ERA is barely over three in the AL and he has a shot at 20 wins with very few losses. If he were in the NL that would be even better with facing pitchers instead of the DH. He's pretty impressive and while his K-rate is down it is said he has tried to pitch more to contact too in order to go deeper into games. Not saying I agree, just what I have read and I'm pretty sure his average innings per start are not much better in doing so.
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I don't disagree that he's been very good... I just think a little higher of "dominant ace" material... I've heard that he's said that about the pitching to contact thing, but I haven't really seen a difference in his starting longevity... so for me, the lower K rate is a bit of a concern... along with the fact that I think he's a big injury risk with his frame and arm motion.
 
zbhargrove said:
Sounds like he's basically a top 40 prospect... I apologize that I was 10 spots off...
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It's hardly a big deal or anything, everyone has something like that happen occasionally, it was just weird you were doggedly trying to deny the point.

And yeah, seems like he's basically a top 40 guy right now. If he can turn it around going forward he'll probably jump back into the top 30 for next year I'm sure, but if he doesn't he'll likely drop down to top 50ish. Seems like most the guys on BA/BP still buy his stuff, but are disturbed by the progress he's making on his control issues. Basically they have the same opinions as most of us on this board for the most part as far as Newcomb goes.

But as far as Sale goes, I don't see anyway he goes for anything less than at least one top 20 guy, a couple top 50ish guys, and a one or two top 100ish guys. While he's been pitching pretty similar to Julio this year, he has his previous 4 years of pitching as a TOR starter that puts him into an entirely different stratosphere of value. Most importantly, he's seen as an Ace by most all the front offices in baseball, which cements his value I think.
 
SJ24 said:
I'll believe we sign Cespedes, Ramos or Wieters, AND a 3B when I see it.

Does anyone have a number for our total salaries next year at present?
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We have around 46 mil locked up between Freddie, Markakis , Olivera, Julio, and Flowers according to Spotrac, with Viz and Inciarte hitting their second and first years of arbitration. Everyone else is pretty much under their first three years of team control outside of Krol, Paco, and Withrow, who are in arbitration as well. So basically we have a ton of money able to be spent.
 
auyushu said:
It's hardly a big deal or anything, everyone has something like that happen occasionally, it was just weird you were doggedly trying to deny the point.

And yeah, seems like he's basically a top 40 guy right now. If he can turn it around going forward he'll probably jump back into the top 30 for next year I'm sure, but if he doesn't he'll likely drop down to top 50ish. Seems like most the guys on BA/BP still buy his stuff, but are disturbed by the progress he's making on his control issues. Basically they have the same opinions as most of us on this board for the most part as far as Newcomb goes.

But as far as Sale goes, I don't see anyway he goes for anything less than at least one top 20 guy, a couple top 50ish guys, and a one or two top 100ish guys. While he's been pitching pretty similar to Julio this year, he has his previous 4 years of pitching as a TOR starter that puts him into an entirely different stratosphere of value. Most importantly, he's seen as an Ace by most all the front offices in baseball, which cements his value I think.
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Oh I definitely agree that he's seen like that, and I definitely think he'll get a ton more than Julio would get... I'm just not sure if I'm sold he's worth it... thus I'd be worried about giving up our newly acquired minor league talent for him.

Also don't think I was doggedly trying to deny it... as soon as I realized the error when I checked BA's website, I immediately edited the post and explained.
 
zbhargrove said:
I'm just not sure if I'm sold he's worth it... thus I'd be worried about giving up our newly acquired minor league talent for him.
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Agreed there, I want nothing to do with us trading for Sale. That's the type of move you make only when you are a world series contender.
 
If you don't think Sale has been a dominant ace, then you basically don't think such a thing exists outside of Kershaw.
 
Sale went nuts tonight. Olivera for Sale. Get it done Coppy. Trade our bad guy crazy dude for their good ole fashioned crazy dude. Throw in a prospect if you have to.
 
auyushu said:
It's hardly a big deal or anything, everyone has something like that happen occasionally, it was just weird you were doggedly trying to deny the point.

And yeah, seems like he's basically a top 40 guy right now. If he can turn it around going forward he'll probably jump back into the top 30 for next year I'm sure, but if he doesn't he'll likely drop down to top 50ish. Seems like most the guys on BA/BP still buy his stuff, but are disturbed by the progress he's making on his control issues. Basically they have the same opinions as most of us on this board for the most part as far as Newcomb goes.

But as far as Sale goes, I don't see anyway he goes for anything less than at least one top 20 guy, a couple top 50ish guys, and a one or two top 100ish guys. While he's been pitching pretty similar to Julio this year, he has his previous 4 years of pitching as a TOR starter that puts him into an entirely different stratosphere of value. Most importantly, he's seen as an Ace by most all the front offices in baseball, which cements his value I think.
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I'm sorry, but I find this to be silly. You're saying that Sale is going to be traded for "no less" than 5 top 100 prospects (three top 50 no less)? There's may be 4-5 players in all of baseball worth that and Chris Sale is not one of them.

I personally can't even think of one trade where 5 top 100 prospects were traded for one player.
 
smootness said:
If you don't think Sale has been a dominant ace, then you basically don't think such a thing exists outside of Kershaw.
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That implies he's been the second best pitcher in all of baseball this year, but he hasn't been... Scherzer, Arietta, Fernandez, Syndergard, Teheran, Lester have all been better this year... And I'm sure a few others have been also.
 
zbhargrove said:
That implies he's been the second best pitcher in all of baseball this year, but he hasn't... Scherzer, Arietta, Fernandez, Syndergard, Teheran, Lester have all been better this year... And I'm sure a few others have been also.
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No, I'm implying that over the last 4-5 years, he's proven himself to be an equal to everyone in the group behind Kershaw. Others may have been better at various times, but Sale has consistently been there.

I don't really care if certain guys have been a little better this year. I'm not just looking at this year. Sale has consistently been an ace, and he's been every bit as dominant, over that period of time, as anyone not named Kershaw.
 
Newcombe has to go. Lefty starter who could play next yr. pair with rodon. Upside is sale like, but I don't think that's happening.

They'd likely ask for Swanson or Albies too.

The rest of our guys are so far away. I'm hoping they'd take two of wisler, Jenkins, grant, Blair.

I worry about emptying the farm for a pitcher. Injury risk so high
 
Is Sale a player who wants out? Maybe. But he does not control the process; the White Sox do. And the team, according to multiple reports, wants five top young players for its ace left-hander, who started the All-Star Game and will earn $38 million between 2017 and '19 if his two club options are exercised — a bargain rate if ever there was one.

The White Sox eventually might come off their demands, but they're not going to cave and they need not hurry. Indeed, numerous executives have told me in recent days that the market for Sale might be even better in the offseason, when the White Sox could involve more clubs.
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http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/...-cut-up-throwback-jerseys-trade-rumors-072316
 
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