Braves Trade Heyward, Walden to Cardinals for Miller and Tyrell Jenkins
- Thread starter MadduxFanII
- Start date
What's your reasoning for this being awful? Just curious. I understand wanting a different deal but it's crazy to say this is awful.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
^^^Amen.
chipchildress
Awaiting a Promotion
i don't see much in their outfield defense in recent years that makes me think their outfield defense was a reason they were winning games...
i do know that the cardinals have been able to score pretty consistently over the years. two years ago they were in the world series. not so coincidentally they also led the national league in runs.
chipchildress
Awaiting a Promotion
how many games has he gotten in left? it's takes time. i'm not really sure he'll be worse than Holliday after a season of playing out there.
holliday probably isn't a better hitter at this point. maybe he is. maybe gattis is the next hank aaron. let's see what he can do with a full season and see, huh?
anyway, it gets back to the simple premise that if you can't score, you can't win. you also can't win with a limited payroll and paying guys that produce runs on heyward's level huge money.
nobody is really claiming that this is about winning for next year, although i'm suggesting it might turn out that way. but even if you can't replace heyward's meager offensive production then so what. you weren't gonna with with his 11 home runs, 65 walks and a month of injury time...great defense or not.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
I really don't think it's a bad trade. Pretty even trade, imo. Saved about 10 mil for next season. We've got Miller, who still has a chance to be a top of the rotation starter, for 4 years. The prospect has good stuff but just needs to learn how to pitch.
I personally did not like the idea of paying Heyward close to 20 million per year. So I like the idea to trade him and get something back. And I think they got fair value for him.
I personally did not like the idea of paying Heyward close to 20 million per year. So I like the idea to trade him and get something back. And I think they got fair value for him.
Orphan Black
Approaching Buddy Hernandez Territory
Gary82
Called Up to the Major Leagues
Braves could be one of worst teams in 2015
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/53538/braves-could-be-one-of-worst-teams-in-2015
It was only last year that we won 96 games. My do things change quickly.
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/53538/braves-could-be-one-of-worst-teams-in-2015
It was only last year that we won 96 games. My do things change quickly.
So, losing Heyward and replacing the offense with Bethancourt improves run scoring, how?
chipchildress
Awaiting a Promotion
did the last page or two in this thread no happen?
then i also said who freaking cares. heyward's garbage offense was enough to lead the braves to the worst offense in the league. oh my how will he be replaced???
My favorite quote:
"The other reason to trade Gattis is that the Braves have taken a step back with the Heyward trade. Heyward was their best player in 2014, although he seems to be often viewed under the lens of a disappointment ("Where's the power?") instead of a Gold Glove right fielder who has an above-average OBP. Maybe he never turned into that middle-of-the-order cleanup hitter once envisioned, but he's still a good guy to have at the top of the lineup and his defensive metrics have always been outstanding."
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Yea, that was on Heyward; sure.
tomahawkchop
New member
I'm still sitting on the fence about this trade. I think I had come to accept the fact that Heyward wasn't going to be returning for 2016 (unless we matched whatever offers he received from other teams); and I do like the fact that Shelby is under control for 4 more years. Wish I could be more excited about the prospect coming over with him. Or if BJ came off the books as part of a potential trade.
But, the part of the deal that has me scratching my head is the timing. Why did the Braves rush to do this deal now? Why so soon? Why not wait at least until the winter meetings? Do you think there are other GMs out there that are surprised/blindsided by this deal happening so early in the offseason (and thinking they had until, at least, December to talk to the Braves about Heyward)?
But, the part of the deal that has me scratching my head is the timing. Why did the Braves rush to do this deal now? Why so soon? Why not wait at least until the winter meetings? Do you think there are other GMs out there that are surprised/blindsided by this deal happening so early in the offseason (and thinking they had until, at least, December to talk to the Braves about Heyward)?
So how do the Braves score more runs by effectively replacing Heywards bat with Bethancourts?
Millwood1Hitter
Anytime Now Frankie...
So I think after the comment on Justin, that it appears that we feel much more confident of being able to lock him up long-term and have had better discussions with his group than we have had with Heyward or it's media posturing on Hart's part to drive up the price on Upton or possible see what type of team we can assemble that could potentially compete in 2015, but if it falls apart and we fall back in the race, Justin will be made available mid season.
I think it's pretty apparent that the Braves did try to retain Heyward, but we're unwilling to go where Heyward and his group wanted to go, and this began last offseason when we started having negotiations with our young core. Heyward didn't want to sign last offseason as he thought he would have a much better 2014 and give more reasons to hand out a potential mega contract based on performance instead of potential alone, and that didn't happen, and the Braves weren't willing to go where Heyward and his agent wanted to go based on potential alone. Of course the budget constraints and having nearly 1/3 of payroll tied up in dead weight compounded the problem, and with the new stadium opening in a few years, we could not afford to lose Heyward for nothing more than a potential pick.
And now we are indeed back to the "Braves Way" or whatever you want to call it. The dynasty of the 90's wasn't built on FA or big name acquisitions, contrary to what some believe. Everyone looks back and think that we we're some large market huge spender ala the Yankees of the late 90's, when in fact we really weren't. We were in a better financial situation back then than where we are right now, but there isn't a huge different there....but the dynasty was built on stockpiling young arms and depth in the minor leagues based on evaluation and development, much of which was used either to perform at the big league level or acquire a pressing need.
Those Braves teams we're built on the backs of Glavine, Smoltz, and Avery among others along with young offensive threats like Justice/Gant. The pipeline was flowing with incoming talent that was close to ready like Chipper, Klesko, Lopez, etc and later on Andruw, Furcal, Millwood, Schmidt. The initial needs we're filled with lesser known but past their prime commodities like Pendleton, Leibrant, Nixon, Bream to bridge the gap. Outside of Maddux and maybe later Galarraga, there we're no huge FA spending spree's to fill needs. Guys like McGriff & Neagle were big name acquisitions, but ones that we're acquired from the strength within, and the other bigger moves were also a precusor from another big move to fill a position more of a need (ie trading Neagle/Tucker to acquire a 2B in Boone and turn around to sign Jordan) or Klesko/Boone for Veras, etc. Looks like we are going to get back to the fundamentals and try to acquire and stockpile as money high upside arms and build depth in pitching, only that this time we need to do it by offering assets already at our disposal as our teams recently have been good enough to win a lot of games and contend but not good enough to win any thing signficant.
I think it's pretty apparent that the Braves did try to retain Heyward, but we're unwilling to go where Heyward and his group wanted to go, and this began last offseason when we started having negotiations with our young core. Heyward didn't want to sign last offseason as he thought he would have a much better 2014 and give more reasons to hand out a potential mega contract based on performance instead of potential alone, and that didn't happen, and the Braves weren't willing to go where Heyward and his agent wanted to go based on potential alone. Of course the budget constraints and having nearly 1/3 of payroll tied up in dead weight compounded the problem, and with the new stadium opening in a few years, we could not afford to lose Heyward for nothing more than a potential pick.
And now we are indeed back to the "Braves Way" or whatever you want to call it. The dynasty of the 90's wasn't built on FA or big name acquisitions, contrary to what some believe. Everyone looks back and think that we we're some large market huge spender ala the Yankees of the late 90's, when in fact we really weren't. We were in a better financial situation back then than where we are right now, but there isn't a huge different there....but the dynasty was built on stockpiling young arms and depth in the minor leagues based on evaluation and development, much of which was used either to perform at the big league level or acquire a pressing need.
Those Braves teams we're built on the backs of Glavine, Smoltz, and Avery among others along with young offensive threats like Justice/Gant. The pipeline was flowing with incoming talent that was close to ready like Chipper, Klesko, Lopez, etc and later on Andruw, Furcal, Millwood, Schmidt. The initial needs we're filled with lesser known but past their prime commodities like Pendleton, Leibrant, Nixon, Bream to bridge the gap. Outside of Maddux and maybe later Galarraga, there we're no huge FA spending spree's to fill needs. Guys like McGriff & Neagle were big name acquisitions, but ones that we're acquired from the strength within, and the other bigger moves were also a precusor from another big move to fill a position more of a need (ie trading Neagle/Tucker to acquire a 2B in Boone and turn around to sign Jordan) or Klesko/Boone for Veras, etc. Looks like we are going to get back to the fundamentals and try to acquire and stockpile as money high upside arms and build depth in pitching, only that this time we need to do it by offering assets already at our disposal as our teams recently have been good enough to win a lot of games and contend but not good enough to win any thing signficant.
He never had a chance to hit in the middle of the order! His bff Freddie refuses to give up that spot.