Braves trade Mallex and Simmons to M's for Gohara and Burrows

Klaw rates Gohara today as a top 100 prospect. Above Newcombe.

Makes it sounds like at worst we got a Nasty closer.
 
If Gohara did turn the corner last year then we got a potential top flight arm. You just never know when things click with a pitcher. Development is not linear and for some reason people want to fit these young kids into a standard developmental curve.
 
Hudson2 said:
Thanks wupk. How many Braves have made it so far?
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Just Newcombe and Gohara. Necombe was 81 and Gohara 77.

I'm assuming no Riley because Klaw has been clear he doesn't like his bat speed or D. Don't think he'll put Minter b/c he's not a guy to rank RPs.

But I'm guessing we land a bunch in the next couple of lists.......Swanson, Albies, Allard, Acuna, Anderson, Maitan and Fried I'd bet would all be on it. We'll see about Soroka, Wentz, Touki, Weigel and Demmeritte.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Just Newcombe and Gohara. Necombe was 81 and Gohara 77.

I'm assuming no Riley because Klaw has been clear he doesn't like his bat speed or D. Don't think he'll put Minter b/c he's not a guy to rank RPs.

But I'm guessing we land a bunch in the next couple of lists.......Swanson, Albies, Allard, Acuna, Anderson, Maitan and Fried I'd bet would all be on it. We'll see about Soroka, Wentz, Touki, Weigel and Demmeritte.
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Considering the scouting reports on him I find it hard to believe touki is not on that list.
 
thethe said:
Considering the scouting reports on him I find it hard to believe touki is not on that list.
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Could be.

There are only 60 spots left. We know Klaw has us number 1. We also know-you know who you are-that you don't hang banners for prospect rankings titles.
Could the Braves land 10 of 60? They likely land 6 and that's 10% right there...
 
We'll see on Fried. I wouldn't guarantee he's in there, but I can't believe any of the other 6 you listed aren't. Which is a minimum of 6 of the top 60 and 8 of the top 100. Pretty nuts. It would be hard to believe Gohara would be any better than #8 or so in our system, and we know he's already said there were guys in the conversation for the top 100 who couldn't crack our top 10. So the fact that we only have 2 in the 61-100 is ridiculous.
 
The only guys I'm for sure expecting in Law's top 60 are Swanson, Albies, Allard and Acuna. He loves Acuna and has been a big fan for at least a year, so I'd be surprised if he wasn't on the list.

The rest I'm not sure about. I think those would be the only four I would have in the top 60, but considering we already know he has us as the top system, I'm not sure that would be true if there were only six prospects in his top 100.
 
thethe said:
Considering the scouting reports on him I find it hard to believe touki is not on that list.
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Any list that has Touki ranked below Gohara should be immediately dismissed.

I'm almost willing to say the same thing about a list that ranks Gohara ahead of Newcomb...so there's that already. Newcomb is essentially a more advanced Gohara without the conditioning or shoulder issues.
 
Enscheff said:
Any list that has Touki ranked below Gohara should be immediately dismissed.

I'm almost willing to say the same thing about a list that ranks Gohara ahead of Newcomb...so there's that already. Newcomb is essentially a more advanced Gohara without the conditioning or shoulder issues.
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Well I'm a huge Newcomb fan so nobody needs to convince me he is undervalued.

I'm not really sure why you're so down on Gohara. Conditioning is not a prerequisite for good pitching. It's a unique position on the diamond. The shoulder issues are a cause for concern but it wasn't anything that caused him to get shutdown. All pitchers deal with pains.

Touki will absolutely be ranked in the top 60. I'd be shocked if he wasnt. If there is more than one curveball bettwe than his in the minors I'd be shocked
 
CJ9 said:
The only guys I'm for sure expecting in Law's top 60 are Swanson, Albies, Allard and Acuna. He loves Acuna and has been a big fan for at least a year, so I'd be surprised if he wasn't on the list.

The rest I'm not sure about. I think those would be the only four I would have in the top 60, but considering we already know he has us as the top system, I'm not sure that would be true if there were only six prospects in his top 100.
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I just find it hard to believe he would have Gohara ranked 5th in our system. And he already made the comment about the top 100 vs. our top 10, so it would be weird after that if his list had just 6 Braves in the top 100 with Gohara 5th ahead of guys like Anderson, Maitan, and Fried.

It would be bizarre for Anderson and Maitan particularly to be outside the top 100, and at this point for them to be in the top 100 they have to be top 60. So I'd expect them in the top 60.
 
Enscheff said:
Any list that has Touki ranked below Gohara should be immediately dismissed.

I'm almost willing to say the same thing about a list that ranks Gohara ahead of Newcomb...so there's that already. Newcomb is essentially a more advanced Gohara without the conditioning or shoulder issues.
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I'm honestly not trolling you right now. I just want a discussion because I really am curious of your view. How is it that you are so high on someone like DeLeon , but so down on Gohara. Conditioning is both of their issues. Obviously DeLeon has advanced more and shown at higher levels, but if conditioning is the big deal, DeLeon offers the same question marks.
 
zbhargrove said:
I'm honestly not trolling you right now. I just want a discussion because I really am curious of your view. How is it that you are so high on someone like DeLeon , but so down on Gohara. Conditioning is both of their issues. Obviously DeLeon has advanced more and shown at higher levels, but if conditioning is the big deal, DeLeon offers the same question marks.
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It's not that I'm down on Gohara. My position has always been that Mallex is simply more valuable than Gohara, therefore, it was a bad trade for the Braves.

I see Mallex as a 2-3 WAR CFer under control for 5 years. I think he is being severely undervalued (which is why the Rays wanted him, they make value moves), and the Braves sold him before they needed to sell him. I am very confident the Rays front office is smarter than the Braves front office, and took advantage of them by acquiring a guy with a surplus value of ~$50 simply because he was "blocked" by Inciarte. Never mind the fact the Rays will probably start Mallex in AAA like the Braves should have done themselves. They will then flip Keirmaier (sp?) for a nice return, and plug Mallex in to replace him...just like the Braves should have done with Inciarte.

I see Gohara as a prospect who is less valuable than Touki. They have a very similar profile (great stuff, bad command), but Touki is the better athlete, and he has had no shoulder issues (the scariest thing to see about a pitcher...they almost never come back from shoulder problems).

Newcomb is easily more valuable than Gohara. Similar stuff, both LHed, but Newcomb is further along and hasn't had shoulder issues. His drop in rankings is due to prospect fatigue more than anything else. Ranking Gohara ahead of him is asinine.

The chances of a 20 year old "stuff" pitcher in A ball with control problems and shoulder issues making an impact at the MLB are minimal. DeLeon is an order of magnitude more valuable than Gohara..they don't even belong in the same discussion.
 
Enscheff said:
It's not that I'm down on Gohara. My position has always been that Mallex is simply more valuable than Gohara, therefore, it was a bad trade for the Braves.

I see Mallex as a 2-3 WAR CFer under control for 5 years. I think he is being severely undervalued (which is why the Rays wanted him, they make value moves), and the Braves sold him before they needed to sell him. I am very confident the Rays front office is smarter than the Braves front office, and took advantage of them by acquiring a guy with a surplus value of ~$50 simply because he was "blocked" by Inciarte. Never mind the fact the Rays will probably start Mallex in AAA like the Braves should have done themselves. They will then flip Keirmaier (sp?) for a nice return, and plug Mallex in to replace him...just like the Braves should have done with Inciarte.

I see Gohara as a prospect who is less valuable than Touki. They have a very similar profile (great stuff, bad command), but Touki is the better athlete, and he has had no shoulder issues (the scariest thing to see about a pitcher...they almost never come back from shoulder problems).

Newcomb is easily more valuable than Gohara. Similar stuff, both LHed, but Newcomb is further along and hasn't had shoulder issues. His drop in rankings is due to prospect fatigue more than anything else. Ranking Gohara ahead of him is asinine.

The chances of a 20 year old "stuff" pitcher in A ball with control problems and shoulder issues making an impact at the MLB are minimal. DeLeon is an order of magnitude more valuable than Gohara..they don't even belong in the same discussion.
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Seems like most of the industry disagrees with you

Maybe that is mallex. I don't think so.
Rays aren't exactly batting 1000 on trades lately either

Go hard is younger than Newcombe and shown improvement in his walk rate.
 
Sounds like our medical staff looked over Gohara's shoulder very thoroughly. He was hitting close to 100 in the AFL... I think the shoulder thing is much ado about nothing. Also, last year in 69.2 innings, he walked 23. That's not perfect but it was a huge improvement. Looks more like to me a young guy "figuring it out" when you look at all his other stats as well. Couple that with his AFL performance, which showed even more control improvement, you have a pretty good prospect.
 
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