Chris Johnson Hopes For Trade From Braves

Julio3000 said:
I think what instruction he got in the Braves system tended to reinforce his predilection to hack (I remember conversations to that effect on the old board, about how the ml instructors didn't want to compromise his aggressiveness), and it became self-sustaining, because the minor-league pitchers couldn't get him out consistently.

Who the hell knows about Chris. He's a coach's son, so one wouldn't think it was baseball IQ, per se. He's just a turrible player when he's swinging at everything, be he often looks like he has the ingredients to be something else.
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It may have been too late at that point. I blame his youth league coaches more than anything else. One thing that can be said about Francoeur is that he had amazing plate coverage. He's a big guy with fairly long arms, so he can reach a lot of pitches. I add to that he seemed to have an allergy to striking out. I like contact over non-contact, but there's a risk/reward with that. Francoeur just seemed content to put the ball in play and take his chances as opposed to waiting on his pitch and then driving it and, of course, that can work in high school and the low minors. He just always appeared to have a very poorly conceived approach that certainly wasn't going to meet with consistent success at the major league level.
 
Francoeur had two mutually re-enforcing problems. The first was his aggressiveness/lack of discipline/however you want to phrase it. The second was that pitchers figured out after his scorching start that he couldn't catch up to high heat. So Jeff had to start his swing earlier and earlier in order to hit high fastballs, and that obviously exacerbated his issues with plate discipline. He had no chance to lay off Major League sliders, even if he was inclined to try and do so.

Johnson's infuriating because he can often look like an impressive hitter. Someone on this board last year said that he had a classic lefty uppercut swing from the right side, and that's just about the perfect description. When he's on, he puts bat to ball and lashes line drives all over the field. And is there anything prettier than a hitter smacking a line drive up to the middle or the opposite way? He looks so smooth and "hittery," to use a scout's "word."

And then he'll swing at a slider in the dirt as though it was completely obligatory. I lost count of the number of times Chris Johnson made me throw things with runners in scoring position last year.
 
MadduxFanII said:
Francoeur had two mutually re-enforcing problems. The first was his aggressiveness/lack of discipline/however you want to phrase it. The second was that pitchers figured out after his scorching start that he couldn't catch up to high heat. So Jeff had to start his swing earlier and earlier in order to hit high fastballs, and that obviously exacerbated his issues with plate discipline. He had no chance to lay off Major League sliders, even if he was inclined to try and do so.

Johnson's infuriating because he can often look like an impressive hitter. Someone on this board last year said that he had a classic lefty uppercut swing from the right side, and that's just about the perfect description. When he's on, he puts bat to ball and lashes line drives all over the field. And is there anything prettier than a hitter smacking a line drive up to the middle or the opposite way? He looks so smooth and "hittery," to use a scout's "word."

And then he'll swing at a slider in the dirt as though it was completely obligatory. I lost count of the number of times Chris Johnson made me throw things with runners in scoring position last year.
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CJ has a beautiful looking swing, but it's long and slow. His bat does spend some time in the zone which lets him hit for a decent average at times, but pitchers have seemed to figure him out.
 
MFII, good point on the bat speed. Above average bat speed (which Francoeur does not have) can cover up a lot of weaknesses. One thing I have noticed about Johnson is that when he pushes the outside pitch to right as opposed to trying to pull it, he has very good form (which Francouer does not have).
 
50PoundHead said:
MFII, good point on the bat speed. Above average bat speed (which Francoeur does not have) can cover up a lot of weaknesses. One thing I have noticed about Johnson is that when he pushes the outside pitch to right as opposed to trying to pull it, he has very good form (which Francouer does not have).
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It's frustrating to watch, but incredibly true. You have guys like Cjoh and guys like Adrian Gonzalez.
 
gilesfan said:
CJ has a beautiful looking swing, but it's long and slow. His bat does spend some time in the zone which lets him hit for a decent average at times, but pitchers have seemed to figure him out.
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I think he's his own problem.

When he lays off the soft stuff away and hits strikes away to right and right-center, he's a .300-hitting, 40 double-ripping, 25% LD-hitting, BABIP-defying m)$&@ ****er you'd like to pencil in the six hole erryday and let him do his thing.

When he's trying to yank and pull and hit for power, he's like a Gulf Coast guy seeing his first real curveball, swearing and grunting while he hits air. So yeah, I suppose pitchers figure him out, but it's not like he's a Rubik's Cube. More like one of those four-piece Barney puzzles.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
I think he's his own problem.

When he lays off the soft stuff away and hits strikes away to right and right-center, he's a .300-hitting, 40 double-ripping, 25% LD-hitting, BABIP-defying m)$&@ ****er you'd like to pencil in the six hole erryday and let him do his thing.

When he's trying to yank and pull and hit for power, he's like a Gulf Coast guy seeing his first real curveball, swearing and grunting while he hits air. So yeah, I suppose pitchers figure him out, but it's not like he's a Rubik's Cube. More like one of those four-piece Barney puzzles.
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You can't lay off sliders away when your bat is slow and you have to start early.
 
gilesfan said:
You can't lay off sliders away when your bat is slow and you have to start early.
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I don't think he's slow. Just long. Kind of has the same effect, I suppose.

In 2013, he managed. That leads me to believe that he can overcome his long swing (or slow bat, as you suggest). I just think he has less margin for error than everybody else. He's got to be scrupulous about staying inside-out, gap to gap, taking the ball where it's pitched.

My gosh, the man hit .321. Over a full season. Against ML pitching. And pitchers, scouts and coaches who surely thought they could get him out away and didn't.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
I don't think he's slow. Just long. Kind of has the same effect, I suppose.

In 2013, he managed. That leads me to believe that he can overcome his long swing (or slow bat, as you suggest). I just think he has less margin for error than everybody else. He's got to be scrupulous about staying inside-out, gap to gap, taking the ball where it's pitched.

My gosh, the man hit .321. Over a full season. Against ML pitching. And pitchers, scouts and coaches who surely thought they could get him out away and didn't.
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Yes, players get lucky over the course of a season all the time. Heck, Jeffery Franchise looked like Hank Aaron his first year.
 
I think what is often overlooked is that opponents do scout guys and over time observation is going to detect patterns and weaknesses. Players--both hitters and pitchers--have to constantly make adjustments. I think the problem that both Johnson and Francoeur share is an inability (or simply a failure to realize the need) to make adjustments.
 
50PoundHead said:
I think what is often overlooked is that opponents do scout guys and over time observation is going to detect patterns and weaknesses. Players--both hitters and pitchers--have to constantly make adjustments. I think the problem that both Johnson and Francoeur share is an inability (or simply a failure to realize the need) to make adjustments.
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Chipper said he was still making adjustments up until his retirement. That's what the good players do. Adapt or die.
 
Not letting him be himself hurt a lot, I think. Not saying whether that was a bad decision or not--it's possible his fire hurt the team more than his performance helped--but I think he needs to get away from the Braves. He has some value to an AL team with trouble vs lefties at 3B/DH.
 
Dalyn said:
Not letting him be himself hurt a lot, I think. Not saying whether that was a bad decision or not--it's possible his fire hurt the team more than his performance helped--but I think he needs to get away from the Braves. He has some value to an AL team with trouble vs lefties at 3B/DH.
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Francoeur has had a decent season for the Phils and I think Johnson is in the same vein. He would probably have some value as a 200 to 250 AB guy playing some 3B, 1B, and DH for an AL team. He's a "cog" that Wren decided to give a "gear" salary.
 
50PoundHead said:
Francoeur has had a decent season for the Phils and I think Johnson is in the same vein. He would probably have some value as a 200 to 250 AB guy playing some 3B, 1B, and DH for an AL team. He's a "cog" that Wren decided to give a "gear" salary.
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The more I think about it, the more I could see him doing really well for the Red Sox.
 
If Adonis hits for two weeks, Hart & Company may just eat the rest of CJ's deal and release him.
 
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