Chris Johnson

I don't consider three years short term. He's a batting average-driven player with spotty power and below average defense. There are better guys non-tendered every winter who would likely be available.

As for the tirade, baseball is probably the one sport that you don't want to play with too much "fire" as it will get you out of your game and being the least fluid sport, you are required to have a higher level of concentration to perform specific skills.
 
50PoundHead said:
I don't consider three years short term. He's a batting average-driven player with spotty power and below average defense. There are better guys non-tendered every winter who would likely be available.

As for the tirade, baseball is probably the one sport that you don't want to play with too much "fire" as it will get you out of your game and being the least fluid sport, you are required to have a higher level of concentration to perform specific skills.
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I mean yeah CJ isn't the greatest but honestly who would you want that we could get "non-tendered" every winter as you have stated for 7 mil.? I just think if we feel the need to upgrade we could package a deal with CJ and some pitching (Hale,Wood,minor leaguers). Problem is we HAVE to re-sign JUp and I can't see us spending a dime over what we paid CJ for someone to play third. The guys we have that maybe could be an upgrade in the minors are at least not ready to '16. Unless you think Kubitza could be a better option? Thouugh I feel he needs to progress in the minors the entire year.
 
50PoundHead said:
I don't consider three years short term. He's a batting average-driven player with spotty power and below average defense. There are better guys non-tendered every winter who would likely be available.

As for the tirade, baseball is probably the one sport that you don't want to play with too much "fire" as it will get you out of your game and being the least fluid sport, you are required to have a higher level of concentration to perform specific skills.
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Non-tendered guys hit .270ish, 10 HR's, 50 RBI's, with a ton of line drives, yes his defense isnt great.

None of our farm-3B are ready until 2 years at least.

And please, 3B is one of the weakest spots in baseball, not saying CJ is Longo or Beltre but no one on the farm is doing crap at 3B, so it's better to keep him for the time being.

His contract is also easily tradeable if they choose to do so.
 
It's the value/$ that is going to kill us with Johnson. Heyward/J. Upton both have contracts that are going to expire while we are paying Johnson and new stadium money or not, you don't just spend money because you have it (or think you have it).

As per the lack of internal options, good point and probably the only relevant point in the extension. 2 years? You're being generous. If we draft a decent 3B prospect this year, that person likely becomes the best prospect in the system at the position. So I will give you that one.

I'm probably one of the least stat-driven posters here, but Johnson is so extremely BA-driven it's almost scary and his defense is not good. Again, just because it's a weak position throughout the big leagues doesn't mean you overpay for a guy who is average at best. It's the on-going resource issue that's the problem here. It's a rule of thumb that you just shouldn't overpay and if Wren has a weakness, it's his tendency to do that (B.J. Upton, Uggla, Johnson all being examples). There's no law that says you can't construct platoons of players with certain strengths to man a single position, but Wren and Fredi seem intent on having an everyday guy with no variation at every position except catcher. Only Uggla's miserable performance has brought any deviation to that approach.
 
FA: 3B.

Who is easily attainable for around 3-5 mil a year, and just as good as CJ.

Yuniesky Betancourt (33)
Alberto Callaspo (32)
Eric Chavez (37)
Jack Hannahan (35) – $4MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Chase Headley (31)
Casey McGehee (32)
Donnie Murphy (32)
Nick Punto (37) – $2.75MM club/vesting option with a $250k buyout
Aramis Ramirez (37) – mutual option
Hanley Ramirez (31)
Pablo Sandoval (28)
Ty Wigginton (37)
Kevin Youkilis (36)

Sandoval/Headley are about it, and both will warrant pretty hefty contracts.

Other than that, nothing much, Hanley aint happening either.
 
Lenny said:
I don't really approve of his actions but the way he manned up to it and accepted responsibility and acknowledged that he was being an idiot, I'm ok with it. He will learn from this and become a better ball player and team mate. After getting that big contract he seems to be putting too much pressure on himself. That may be why he's not the same player he was last year. Maybe this will force him to take it a little easier and his production will go up.
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He actually started hitting a lot better once he signed that deal.
 
50PoundHead said:
It's the value/$ that is going to kill us with Johnson. Heyward/J. Upton both have contracts that are going to expire while we are paying Johnson and new stadium money or not, you don't just spend money because you have it (or think you have it).
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NO ONE knows what our payroll will be when the new stadium opens. Baseball's inflation is incredible right now, money is jumping everywhere.

Could EASILY be 130-140 million by then for all we know.

Uggla's deal will be off the books by then.

Dont think CJ's deal hurts keeping JUp/Heyward, i think we can only keep one of them though, if they want to keep both, they could make it work. It would cost 3-5 mil to find a good 3B, so we're paying maybe 2-3 mil more. That's not gonna hurt keeping JUp/JHey.

It's not a great deal but given what's in the system at 3B, it's not too bad.
 
I don't really see this as a problem. David Ortiz murdered a phone with his bat last year and he was the key cog on a world series team. That was much worse than anything CJ did last night.
 
Heyward said:
FA: 3B.

Who is easily attainable for around 3-5 mil a year, and just as good as CJ.

Yuniesky Betancourt (33)
Alberto Callaspo (32)
Eric Chavez (37)
Jack Hannahan (35) – $4MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Chase Headley (31)
Casey McGehee (32)
Donnie Murphy (32)
Nick Punto (37) – $2.75MM club/vesting option with a $250k buyout
Aramis Ramirez (37) – mutual option
Hanley Ramirez (31)
Pablo Sandoval (28)
Ty Wigginton (37)
Kevin Youkilis (36)

Sandoval/Headley are about it, and both will warrant pretty hefty contracts.

Other than that, nothing much, Hanley aint happening either.
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A lot of us here would have liked Chavez on the Braves. I don't know if he's a guy who can go out and get more than 300 ABs, but he's still a very good part-time player. Luis Valbuena is another guy with some 3B experience. I've always like Callaspo, who like Valbuena is a multiple position guy. I think a decent platoon could have been constructed that would have out-performed Johnson's expected levels of performance. I respect the right of others to disagree. It's why they play 162 games.

I just want Wren to go outside the box periodically. One can argue he did that when he turned the catching reins over to Gattis, but Bethancourt can always do the defensive part of that equation, but more than half the time, it's like he's a kid collecting baseball cards and not thinking about what he's actually doing.

But it's not just Heyward and J. Upton that will be looking at big contract numbers. They are going to have to pay Teheran and Minor as well. And Uggla being off the books isn't going to accommodate all the salary demands that are going to be out there. One of the two OFs will likely be gone. I don't know if Johnson's contract per se will be the cause of that, but I just don't think you spend money because it's sitting there momentarily. New stadium or not (or money or not), I think what Johnson was signed for was an overpay.
 
50PoundHead said:
A lot of us here would have liked Chavez on the Braves. I don't know if he's a guy who can go out and get more than 300 ABs, but he's still a very good part-time player. Luis Valbuena is another guy with some 3B experience. I've always like Callaspo, who like Valbuena is a multiple position guy. I think a decent platoon could have been constructed that would have out-performed Johnson's expected levels of performance. I respect the right of others to disagree. It's why they play 162 games.

I just want Wren to go outside the box periodically. One can argue he did that when he turned the catching reins over to Gattis, but Bethancourt can always do the defensive part of that equation, but more than half the time, it's like he's a kid collecting baseball cards and not thinking about what he's actually doing.

But it's not just Heyward and J. Upton that will be looking at big contract numbers. They are going to have to pay Teheran and Minor as well. And Uggla being off the books isn't going to accommodate all the salary demands that are going to be out there. One of the two OFs will likely be gone. I don't know if Johnson's contract per se will be the cause of that, but I just don't think you spend money because it's sitting there momentarily. New stadium or not (or money or not), I think what Johnson was signed for was an overpay.
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They already paid Julio, he's not a FA until 2020 or 2021.

Minor, sure.

Overpay, sure, but money isnt what it was 4-5 years ago.

Could certainly see them being only able to keep one of Justin or Jason but i dont think thats because of CJ's contract.
 
I don't think money is really an issue. Average players get paid what CJ is getting paid and I would say that's about what he is. I think it's clear with the new TV deal on those extra games plus the stadium situation that nobody besides the Braves themselves know where the payroll is going to sit by the time the stadium is done. We are in a good position.
 
Braves payroll is still going to go up IMO the next few yeras. I believe it will settle in the 125-130 range. If the ballpark starts consistently getting 35K+ then all bets are off.
 
weso1 said:
I don't really see this as a problem. David Ortiz murdered a phone with his bat last year and he was the key cog on a world series team. That was much worse than anything CJ did last night.
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Sometimes you just gotta get it out of your system.

Leave Chris alone. If the bat hadn't hit Fredi he wouldn't have pulled him and we'd never know. He's a redass. We need a redass. More importantly, we haven't had many redasses the last 25 years. I like a little bit of that.
 
Don't see how this is even an issue. As long as it doesn't turn into a recurring problem, we'll be fine. There could be a lot of worse things he could do, lack of hustle, disciplinary issues (ex: Puig), or even fighting with teammates. By all indications, he's a good teammate.
 
weso1 said:
I don't really see this as a problem. David Ortiz murdered a phone with his bat last year and he was the key cog on a world series team. That was much worse than anything CJ did last night.
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This is the second time he's hit fellow teammates/ coaches with equipment in his tirades
 
NYCBrave said:
Don't see how this is even an issue. As long as it doesn't turn into a recurring problem, we'll be fine. There could be a lot of worse things he could do, lack of hustle, disciplinary issues (ex: Puig), or even fighting with teammates. By all indications, he's a good teammate.
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He's fought with fellow teammates/coaches (TP and Fredi) and it's a reoccurring problem.
 
gilesfan said:
He's fought with fellow teammates/coaches (TP and Fredi) and it's a reoccurring problem.
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When did he fight with teammates? He threw a helmet that hit TP, he didn't pick a fight with him. You're grasping at straws here as usual. It's not like this happens once a week or even once a month. Plus he accepted responsibility and admitted he needed to change. Get over it.
 
Love CJ and his fire, wish we had a team full of guys like him. He's not a great player, but he's got that grinder type attitude that I love and that winning teams need to be successful.

Was a guy like Paul O'Neill any different than CJ, no? Yet he was adored in New York because the guy wanted to and did what ever it did to win. O'Neill was obviously a better and more productive player than CJ, but you get the point. Everytime I watched a Yanks game a bat or helmet was flying somewhere, or he is in constant angst. Hell, he'd even be doing that if he was 4-4.
 
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