Current (and future) catching situations..

blueagleace1

blueagleace1

Playing the Waiting Game
Hey guys, first and foremost I hope everyone has had a wonderful Thanksgiving and didn't eat too much!

I know I'm not alone in this but I am extremely thankful for all of you and this board as it gives us somewhere to come together and talk Braves baseball, which is something we all love. I know there are times when we butt heads and disagree but at the end of the day it all comes down to a love of this game and passionate opinions that ultimately will always vary. I know I'm partial, but after scrolling around other forums, different team sites/forums and the comment section of articles, it's become apparent we as a group understand the game and while we disagree on almost everything we respect the other person and their point of view, therefore making this the best place to talk baseball in general but especially Braves baseball and I thank all of you for that! A special thanks to all the mods, admins and the "President of Chop Country operations" aka Forever Fredi or also know as Jeffrey!

Now, (sorry for the long post haha) for the reason of the thread...

With Jason Castro -who was our apparent #1 target- signing with Minnesota, what do we do at catcher?

1. Sign a free agent

2. Trade for someone

3. Stay with what we have in Flowers, Recker, and Gosewisch

Who are possible (please make realistic) targets if you think they go with #1 or #2 and if #1/#2 what would it cost? Who do you think would make the most sense and offer us the most production and again a realistic option, so NO Gary Shanchez, Sal Perez, Buster Posey's, .etc? Would love to see some opinions..

My personal opinion:Make 1 of these 3 trades..

1. Trade Luke Dykstra / Williams Perez / Stephen Janas to San Diego for Derek Norris

2. Trade Rio Ruiz / Chris Ellis / John Gant to Cleveland for Yan Gomes (probably my preferable target)

3. Trade Mallex Smith / John Gant / Tuffy Gosewisch to St. Louis for Carson Kelly

Couple more targets I like are:(along with my opinion of player/prospect(s) it would take to acquire)

1. Luis Torrens (NYY)- John Gant and Phillip Pheifer

2. Elias Diaz (PIT)- Johan Camargo, Chris Withrow and Williams Perez

3. Tom Murphy (COL)- Chris Ellis and Chris Withrow

4. Blake Swihart and Mike Zunino are two guys who might could use a change of scenery. Swihart would probably cost a bit more than Zunino, and while neither are considered defensive minded backstops, they both are pretty solid offensively (Zunino's power is his calling card) and wouldn't kill you defensively. Although some say Swihart fits best in the OF, we could benefit by giving him a chance behind the plate as his bat would be above average.

Again, just my opinion on cost, what do you guys think??
 
I like your St. Louis proposal but think it may be a bit heavy by including Mallex, maybe go Gant, Gosewisch, Whalen for Kelly.

I would also try a trade with Cincy for Tyler Stephenson. The Reds supposedly want bullpen help and just drafted Okey. Stephenson has been hurt most of his pro career and has lost some shine in Cincy. I'm thinking maybe a Viz and Ramirez trade for Stephenson.

Go with Flowers, Recker and Kelly in 2017. Hope Stephenson and/or Herbert are the future to go with Kelly.
 
I'd offer Wieters a 2 year/ $20 m deal with an opt out....I say that because he can hit lefty, but more importantly he has seen RA Dickey pitch a lot over the past few years and I have zero faith our catchers could handle him after last years awful defensive showing
 
bravesfanforlife88 said:
I'd offer Wieters a 2 year/ $20 m deal with an opt out....I say that because he can hit lefty, but more importantly he has seen RA Dickey pitch a lot over the past few years and I have zero faith our catchers could handle him after last years awful defensive showing
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Awful defensive showing? Flowers has been consistently elite at pitch framing. I have zero concerns with him catching Dickey. Wieters is dreadful at all aspects of the position. He can't hit, can't play defense, and is a terrible framer. Any amount of money will be too much for him.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like anything available will be better than the current options already on the roster.
 
I'd rather focus on improving 3b and one of the corner OF positions. The market for those seems more flush with talent which means we'd have to give up less to acquire it.
 
On the catching:
Weiters is a Scott Boras guy. None of these offers I've seen here would even result in a return phone call. Can't afford him, even if we have some stupid money in the budget.

As for trading for prospects, it might be lost on some of you that the Braves have no less than three of them in the system now:
Cade Scivicque: has a live bat, as AFL showed. He caught over 700 innings last year with only four passed balls. Strong enough arm.
Jonathan Morales has wowed people in every stop
Lucas Herbert, made Rome's No. 1 catcher in his first pro season, supposed to be a natural leader and has skill set

I am an advocate of giving Recker a full shot.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I like your St. Louis proposal but think it may be a bit heavy by including Mallex, maybe go Gant, Gosewisch, Whalen for Kelly.

I would also try a trade with Cincy for Tyler Stephenson. The Reds supposedly want bullpen help and just drafted Okey. Stephenson has been hurt most of his pro career and has lost some shine in Cincy. I'm thinking maybe a Viz and Ramirez trade for Stephenson.

Go with Flowers, Recker and Kelly in 2017. Hope Stephenson and/or Herbert are the future to go with Kelly.
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Thanks Harry! You may be exactly right that my proposal was a bit heavy and that's a positive for us. The ONLY reason I included Mallex and trust me it was hard because I personally think he will be a .290 - .300 hitter who gets on base at a .340 - .360 clip while stealing 40-50 bases per year but I do know St. Louis is in the market for an everyday CF (with Grichuck moving to LF I assume) and Mallex would be a perfect fit there and leading off. The second part of my reasoning of including Mallex is that Molina isn't getting any younger and I'm just not sure how much longer he can handle the rigors of being an everyday catcher, not to mention he is a free agent after this season (with a team option for 2018) and they value Kelly pretty highly from what I've read. So the fact they value Kelly pretty high, Yadi getting older, and their need for a CF just made me (albeit reluctantly) include Mallex. Now, if we could get Kelly without giving up Mallex then even better! Maybe something like Gant / Gosewisch / Lien or Curcio / Withrow for Kelly and Zac Gallen. Another possibility would to aim higher and ask for Kelly and Michael Wacha for Mallex, Gant, and Withrow BUT that deal would depend SOLELY on the fact that the Braves feel comfortable with Wacha's medicals.

Anyways, thanks for the response(s) and insight!!
 
I think a trade for Montero is the best choice. Should come cheap in terms of prospects, a great platoon partner for Flowers, and rates highly in pitch framing.

A 2nd option would be a blockbuster trade with the Cubs with the main pieces moving being Inciarte and Vizcaino and receiving Happ, Contreras, and others. This trade would largely be dependent on the Cubs not signing a premiere closer on the FA market.
 
Some options may emerge at the non-tender deadline. I believe this is how Flowers became available last year. Also some possible cuts at the end of spring training. Derek Norris for example might become available as a salary dump. At the end of spring training we will have more of feel as to whether Flowers/Recker is an acceptable combination. But I think we are well poised to play a waiting game this year with Boras. We are ok if Wieters' price stays too high. And we can step if the price drops.
 
I don't see Cubbies trading Montero.. He is now their backup catcher. Schwarber is done catching. If we want to deal with the Cubs, then we might just wait for Rule 5 and take Victor Caratini.. he might be left unprotected.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I don't see Cubbies trading Montero.. He is now their backup catcher. Schwarber is done catching. If we want to deal with the Cubs, then we might just wait for Rule 5 and take Victor Caratini.. he might be left unprotected.
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It's hard to know for sure, but I can't believe they're too thrilled about paying 14 million to a back-up catcher, even if they have the money for it.
 
blueagleace1 said:
Thanks Harry! You may be exactly right that my proposal was a bit heavy and that's a positive for us. The ONLY reason I included Mallex and trust me it was hard because I personally think he will be a .290 - .300 hitter who gets on base at a .340 - .360 clip while stealing 40-50 bases per year but I do know St. Louis is in the market for an everyday CF (with Grichuck moving to LF I assume) and Mallex would be a perfect fit there and leading off. The second part of my reasoning of including Mallex is that Molina isn't getting any younger and I'm just not sure how much longer he can handle the rigors of being an everyday catcher, not to mention he is a free agent after this season (with a team option for 2018) and they value Kelly pretty highly from what I've read. So the fact they value Kelly pretty high, Yadi getting older, and their need for a CF just made me (albeit reluctantly) include Mallex. Now, if we could get Kelly without giving up Mallex then even better! Maybe something like Gant / Gosewisch / Lien or Curcio / Withrow for Kelly and Zac Gallen. Another possibility would to aim higher and ask for Kelly and Michael Wacha for Mallex, Gant, and Withrow BUT that deal would depend SOLELY on the fact that the Braves feel comfortable with Wacha's medicals.

Anyways, thanks for the response(s) and insight!!
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Good thread!

You may be right that it would take Mallex and I wouldn't hesitate to give him up assuming you think Kelley is a multi-year starter.

I would still want to push for Stephenson and maybe Pentecost of the Blue Jays as well since catching is so hard to develop.

I think scouts have trouble on catchers more than anywhere else. They appear to focus in on one tool such as strong arm or game calling and forget that you are looking for a complete player? Bethancourt anyone? We heard about him for five years based primarily on the fact that he has a strong arm, from what I can tell.

Scivie may be a find, but needs to show some consistency. Herbert looks like a defensive specialist so far. Stephenson and Pentecost may neither pan out, but if you have a chance to really stock the system with good chances, I think you are better off.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I don't see Cubbies trading Montero.. He is now their backup catcher. Schwarber is done catching. If we want to deal with the Cubs, then we might just wait for Rule 5 and take Victor Caratini.. he might be left unprotected.
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Cubs put Caratini on their 40-man roster.
 
You can forget Gary Sanchez being traded for anyone. The PR nightmare alone is reason it won't happen. We did try to get him in a mega deal with the Yankees a few years ago.
 
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