Dansby Swanson Already Proving He Belongs

jpx7 said:
Only speaking for myself, I wasn't referring to this thread, per se. Notwithstanding the fact that "holding is own" is not necessarily commensurate with "proving he belongs" (and I think there's an important, if subtle, difference there), it's not really the content of this specific thread to which I was referring.

On the other hand, if there's been an unwarranted "victory lap", it's been seen in pretty much every single game-thread coinciding with any game in which he's scored a hit since he's been called up, along with a few other threads tangentially touching on Swanson as part of the general theme of the Braves' future.
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The people taking these victory laps are the same people who lack the brain power to understand the argument against calling Swanson up, so your points will fall on deaf ears.
 
Enscheff said:
The people taking these victory laps are the same people who lack the brain power to understand the argument against calling Swanson up, so your points will fall on deaf ears.
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Which argument is that? The one where it may affect his service time but we won't know for sure until after the new CBA? Or the one where he clearly isn't ready to be at this level based on AA stats?
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Good post.

The thing is, if you preach "go for it," "let's see what the kids got," "bring him up, it makes no difference to the long run since it's obvious that the Braves will extent him," then you really can't lose because you can always fall back to "needing some excitement" or "just being a fan" if he fails or if the move backfires in any way. If he does great, then you look like a genius and anyone who went the other way can't even defend their position without it coming off as sour grapes.

If you say "this is a bad idea," or "it makes no difference to this season and is a bad gamble for the long run" or "he's not ready, even according to John Hart" the only way you come off as correct is if the player fails or bad things happen and even then you lose as a fan because you don't want the player to fail. So even if you win the argument you lose in the end, unless your big thing is E Cred and that's all you really care about (which isn't me).

I've said very little either way for a while because there's no way I can win the argument - if he succeeds wildly, I was wrong. If he fails, I'm a dick for hoping he fails so I can be right (or so the narrative would go). I said early and will say again that anything he does, good or bad, is a SSS that may or may not mean a thing and we won't even know what that SSS ultimately is until the end of the season.

For the record, I hope he succeeds wildly -ROY, batting titles, gold gloves, All Star appearances, retired number, all of it for the Atlanta Braves.

But I still say that it is a dumb move regardless of his performance or lack of performance because his success or lack of success means nothing to this year's team and very little to next years team (one could argue that if he succeeds wildly this year it will build a foundation for him next year which might be true). But there can be no argument that he didn't have to go on the 40 man until he was called up and any time spent at the ML level is time that counts against control time for the team and speeds the arrival of arbitration and ultimately FA. It's speculation both ways as to whether any of that will ultimately make any difference either way.
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I think that's because you said he was a 600 OPS hitter and since he's shown that not to be the case you haven't had much else to say on the topic.
 
Julio3000 said:
Yes, that. I'm surprised that elaboration is needed, but there it is.
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But this happens with almost every debated topic on this board, on both sides. My point still stands. It's interesting to call it out from one side and not the other.
 
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/20156...ith-best-long-term-futures/?topicid=151437456

Interestingly, no mention about how bad they screwed up by calling him up...

7. Dansby Swanson, SS, Braves

Part of the heist from the D-backs in the Shelby Miller trade last December, Swanson will be the face of his hometown franchise. The No. 1 overall pick in the 2015 Draft handled the jump from Double-A to Atlanta with aplomb, and while he doesn't have the offensive ceiling of the other players in this Top 10, he'll outproduce most shortstops while playing solid defense.
 
thewupk said:
I think that's because you said he was a 600 OPS hitter and since he's shown that not to be the case you haven't had much else to say on the topic.
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This is exactly what I was talking about. I never said he was a 600 OPS hitter. I said how was it going to help by bringing him up and having him be a .600 OPS hitter because he was brought up too early. I also said that any stats gained this year would be a SSS and would not necessarily be any indicator of performance going forward good or bad.

Look, I'm glad the kid is doing pretty well so far. It's clear that the Braves are handling him pretty gingerly since he's not seeing most of the best MLB pitchers and is sitting some and they are slowly introducing him to the better players in the league as he builds confidence.

I'm not going to be put in a situation where I have to root against the guy to be right. I would much rather be wrong and let people like you kick up your heels in an "I told you so" prance dance while you take lap after lap soaking up your E-Cred. Enjoy.

But, I will say it one more time. It was a dumb move in the long run regardless of whether it works out for the player because it is not the best long term thing for the team.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
This is exactly what I was talking about. I never said he was a 600 OPS hitter. I said how was it going to help by bringing him up and having him be a .600 OPS hitter because he was brought up too early. I also said that any stats gained this year would be a SSS and would not necessarily be any indicator of performance going forward good or bad.

Look, I'm glad the kid is doing pretty well so far. It's clear that the Braves are handling him pretty gingerly since he's not seeing most of the best MLB pitchers and is sitting some and they are slowly introducing him to the better players in the league as he builds confidence.

I'm not going to be put in a situation where I have to root against the guy to be right. I would much rather be wrong and let people like you kick up your heels in an "I told you so" prance dance while you take lap after lap soaking up your E-Cred. Enjoy.

But, I will say it one more time. It was a dumb move in the long run regardless of whether it works out for the player because it is not the best long term thing for the team.
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Which list do Scherzer and Syndergaard belong on in that case???

Since we're saying things "one more time" - if you think Swanson's arbitration years aren't bought out long before he gets to them, most people think you're sadly mistaken.
 
clvclv said:
Which list do Scherzer and Syndergaard belong on in that case???

Since we're saying things "one more time" - if you think Swanson's arbitration years aren't bought out long before he gets to them, most people think you're sadly mistaken.
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I am now completely reassured that Swanson will forego millions of dollars by signing for a steep home team discount. I mean, his intelligence and middle class background obviously means that he will want to go for the short term gain and the Ferrari over the bigger long term contract. It's obvious now. I don't know why I didn't see it before. :roll::Wall:

As for Sherzer and Syndergaard: slowly introducing him to the better players in the league as he builds confidence. It's easy to make an argument when you pick and choose what to attack. Maybe politics is in your future.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
But, I will say it one more time. It was a dumb move in the long run regardless of whether it works out for the player because it is not the best long term thing for the team.
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why do you think you know better than the team about what's in the best interest of the team?
 
thewupk said:
Which argument is that? The one where it may affect his service time but we won't know for sure until after the new CBA? Or the one where he clearly isn't ready to be at this level based on AA stats?
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The one where they started his service clock so he could spend the last part of his age 22 season on a 100 loss team. Now Swanson will be playing elsewhere for his age 29 season, or making roughly 2x the money he would have been making were he under arb control for that year.

The Braves don't know what the new CBA will bring, but it was stupid to take the chance of giving up control of his age 29 season if the rules don't change.

Then to read you guys make asinine arguments about "boosted attendance" and "getting his feet wet"? All the while puffing your chests out every time he gets a hit as if it's a big "F you" to everyone who thinks it was dumb to call him up and waste his service time?

So yeah, if you confuse the argument, "it was dumb to start his service clock" with, "Swanson sucks", and feel the need to comment about it every single time he makes a play or gets a hit, you're an idiot. If you need me to, I can go back into every single game thread and copy/paste several such moronic posts by several different idiots to show you exactly what I mean.
 
yeezus said:
why do you think you know better than the team about what's in the best interest of the team?
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Well, I wouldn't have done the Olivera trade for one thing. I wouldn't have called Kemp fat (or out of shape) in the press. I wouldn't have fired Fredi, since he was a sunk cost in a sunk season (I would have fired him after the season and started new).

The FO is human. They make mistakes. EVERYONE criticizes the FO of their team except when it's convenient to their argument not to.

The FO probably has no choice but to put on the "try to compete" dog and pony show next year. The local government and advertisers going into the new stadium are likely demanding that to be the case. It's the unforced errors like bringing Swanson up when they didn't have to that bother me the most.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Well, I wouldn't have done the Olivera trade for one thing. I wouldn't have called Kemp fat (or out of shape) in the press. I wouldn't have fired Fredi, since he was a sunk cost in a sunk season.

The FO is human. They make mistakes. EVERYONE criticizes the FO of their team except when it's convenient to their argument not to.
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And I wonder if those arguing that the FO knows best what is in the best interest of the team also feel the same way about the FO when Wren was running things. Just curious if there is a consistency there.
 
nsacpi said:
And I wonder if those arguing that the FO knows best what is in the best interest of the team also feel the same way about the FO when Wren was running things. Just curious if there is a consistency there.
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Yup, Wren was also making far more informed and likely better decisions than I would have been making.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Well, I wouldn't have done the Olivera trade for one thing. I wouldn't have called Kemp fat (or out of shape) in the press. I wouldn't have fired Fredi, since he was a sunk cost in a sunk season (I would have fired him after the season and started new).

The FO is human. They make mistakes. EVERYONE criticizes the FO of their team except when it's convenient to their argument not to.

The FO probably has no choice but to put on the "try to compete" dog and pony show next year. The local government and advertisers going into the new stadium are likely demanding that to be the case. It's the unforced errors like bringing Swanson up when they didn't have to that bother me the most.
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Criticism is one thing. Calling something "dumb" as if you have more insight into Dansby than they do is more dumb than anything they've done. They understand the service clock. They understand money. Maybe, just maybe, they don't analyze as crudely as you do. Just a wild guess tho.
 
Does the FO not understand calling Dansby starts his clock?!?! Oh my god I need to let them know? Quick! To the message board!!!
 
yeezus said:
Does the FO not understand calling Dansby starts his clock?!?! Oh my god I need to let them know? Quick! To the message board!!!
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there is a fair amount of divergence in major league practice when it comes to service time management...i know some teams would have not promoted him this year...and i dont mind characterizing some front offices as smarter than others and not entirely based on service time management...i put the diamondbacks at one end of the spectrum and the pirates FO at the other
 
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