Gary82
Called Up to the Major Leagues
Yeah I think he's a .250 30 hr guy with a low obp and high k rate. He's not a star, but he's useful.
He won't bring people to the stadium.
David Price expects to be dealt
- Thread starter BRule
- Start date
Yeah I think he's a .250 30 hr guy with a low obp and high k rate. He's not a star, but he's useful.
He won't bring people to the stadium.
It's not the BA and HRs Im worried about, it's the .280 OBP that goes along with it.
He did show some promising signs of progress in the NLCS though. It was almost like watching a totally different hitter up there. He put up competitive AB after competitive AB, which is more than I can say for most of the lineup.
My problem with this line of thinking is that you can't build a team out of 1.5 WAR players and expect to win, no matter how cheap those guys are. You need those 4-5 WAR star players, and they cost money.
Once your team has a certain baseline level of talent and becomes competitive, you need to start acquiring star talent to make you a true contender.
Just like I always preach that all runs scored are not created equally, all WAR added to your roster are not created equally.
PawPawMaxwell
Called Up to the Major Leagues
Exact;y my point. With a winter of MLB level coaching and help in the pitch recognition area and the assurance of a job, he could advance considerably.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
Bottom line: If the Braves want to be a legit WS contender next year, and I don't mean just winning the NL East, I mean going deep into the postseason, then 1. either we have to acquire an ace like a Price or Julio and Minor have to take large steps toward being for real for real aces, 2. Second base has to be fixed because Uggla is done, and people like EJ aren't going to cut it, and 3. BJ Upton must have a bounce-back year, at least to where we don't have an automatic out in CF.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
I would kick the tires on Scherzer, although I wouldn't be willing to give up the farm, as he'd likely be a one-year rental as a Boras client.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I don't disagree.
But I would shy away from the assumption that a particular player or type of player puts you over the top. It is always a question of probabilities. A player like Price would certainly move the needle in the right direction, but nothing is guaranteed in terms of post-season success. We always have to look at the expected costs and benefits before making the decision.
I think the best approach is to start with what your farm system has given you and is likely to give you in the next couple of years. Look at where bringing in an external solution will give you the biggest bang for the buck. I'm not sure that starting pitching is the spot where going to an external solution gives the biggest bang for the buck.
Looking at our current roster, I'd say second is a bigger area of need. I have concerns about catcher.
I also have a strong bias against trades where the future is mortgaged for the present. One of the reasons I liked the Justin Upton trade was it wasn't all about giving up prospects. We gave up Prado, whose peak "surplus value" years were past him. I think there is a lack of appreciation of how valuable those pre-arb years are and to some extend the arb years as well.
One last thing. I like the shift we've made toward power arms in recent years. We're getting pretty close to having some dominant home grown pitchers. You look at the peripheral numbers Teheran and Wood put up this year and all you need to do is squeeze a little more improvement (which is what you would expect from a 22 year old) and presto you've got an elite pitcher. Minor is also young enough to take that step forward and potentially become one of the top 15 starting pitchers in the game. And we have four guys in the minors with good power arms and lots of upside--Sims, Cabrera, Graham and Hursh. I would hate to part with any of those guys as part of a deal to get Price.
Don't mean to pick on you, specifically, but everything here's come up in other threads.
1. It's certainly true that at least one front line starter is needed. Right now, Minor would more likely be a #3 on a contending team. Teheran isn't in the conversation yet. In his start against the Dodgers, he was more like the pitcher, who got roughed up by AAA last season than a potential future ace. This is posted with the hope that it one comes to pass though. (Oh, and for the others, why does everything thread have to be an invitation for dippy trade proposals? Nobody here knows what the Rays would want, who they like on the Braves roster/farm system and what other teams would offer to literally drive up the Price.
2. It's silly to think that Elliot Johnson is even being discussed. His acquistion was a bottom of the barrell move. He's waiver fodder. Nobody's said anything different than the comments section of Daily DOB about Uggla. "Trade him!" Well, duh, if only it were that easy. They don't operate the club like your fantasy league team. Braves team doctors and the hitting coaches need to determine if the guy's still experiencing vision problems. If so, there's *still* hope of retrieving something from the 2 years of that contract. With the cost associated, the professionals need to figure out the exact source of the problem.
3. The situation with BJ is another case of "nothing else new under the sun." It's possible that the lack of fraternal competition caused some of the streakiness in little brother. Well, of course they need a bounce back from him. Having signed him was the big drawing card to get Justin on board. Justin's too valuable, and really doubt that Profar is trade bait now, despite all the posts to that effect.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
If he were still experiencing vision problems, you'd think he would let it be known and not act like such an ass about being benched.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I agree with this a lot. I think the organization is looking at Uggla's situation a bit more dispassionately than around here and will be a bit patient given the contract and the possibility that he needed some time for the eyes to stabilize after the Lasik.
I also agree about Elliot Johnson's place in the discussion.
In terms of how I would rank the current internal second base candidates in terms of expected production in 2014 (covering both hitting and defense), it would look like this:
1. Uggla
2. Pena
3. Pastornicky
4. La Stella
5. Elliot Johnson
6. Gosselin
I don't expect Elliot Johnson to make the team out of spring training if everyone is healthy. I would keep him on the 40-man roster because he does provide a stopgap option if others get hurt. But I'd prefer to see him in Gwinnett next April than on the big league team.
Definitely a possibility. We'll find out soon enough. If he's lifting jacks/banging doubles, while not hitting below .250 in ST, then we can hold our collective breath.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
Let us hope for the best.
You can't be serious?! Those are 3 Top 100 prospects there's not another team that would offer anything better! Sims is widely considered at Top 50 prospect and Wood would have been as well so I'm not sure what team would offer 2 Top 50 prospects and a Top 100 guy! Your definitely under rating the Braves prospects!
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Perhaps when said April Fools he meant that the TB GM would not believe his luck. That's the most charitable interpretation I can come up with.
Agreed. People see that Gattis is 27 and think this is the finished product. He is still so early in his development as a baseball player that he could go in either direction. The playoffs were an amazing sign. Very few AB's looked bad. I'm excited for next year and hope he is our everyday catcher.
Consider the source Jay...consider the source.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
Lets run down the competition here.
Yankees - Dont see Rays trading Price to division rivals, it would take virtually their entire farm to do it anyways
Red Sox - Got the ammo but dont see Rays trading price in the division.
Orioles - See Red Sox
Blue Jays - See Red Sox
Tigers - Highly doubt it, seriously lacking in ammo although Castellanos is a good center piece
Royals- Dont have the money
Twins - Not ready to compete yet
Indians - It would be out of character for them to trade for Price, seriously lacking in money as well
White Sox - they are rebuilding, also have one of if not the worst farm system in the game
A's - I could see Billy trading for Price then re-trading him next offseason and getting a better haul than he gave up. Still a long shot
Rangers - Strong contenders although they are reportedly after bats more than starters. Have top notch trading chips in Martin Perez and Jurickson Profar
Angels - Money is an issue but they are all in imo, ammo is lacking but still doable.
Mariners - Need hitting not pitching
Astros - hahahahahahahahah
Mets - If they did then Price would blow out his arm anyways. Highly unlikely
Phillies - Short on ammo and money but you cant rule out the Rube
Nats - They have the ammo but need hitting more than a starter. Unlikely but I wouldnt rule it out
Cubs - Wont rule it out because they did trade for Garza.
Reds - Lacking money
Cardinals - Cant see them willing to give up a big haul of prospects. But wont rule them out.
Brewers - Rebuilding
Pirates - Cant see them giving up the haul of prospects it would take but it would be a bold move. Also need hitting more than starters
DBacks - They were rumored to really want an ace last offseason. They do have the ammo.
dodgers - Cant count them out in their attempt to buy a world series. Their odds go up if they dont win the WS imo.
Giants - Need hitting far more than starters
Rockies - Rebuilding + lack of money
Padres - no
So I see serious contenders for Price as Rangers, Phillies, Dodgers, DBacks, Angels. Longshots being Cubs, A's, Cards, Pirates and Nats. I think the Braves fit into the serious contenders group. Now if the Rays would trade him within the division I would put the Red Sox and Yankees in the serious conteder group.
Yankees - Dont see Rays trading Price to division rivals, it would take virtually their entire farm to do it anyways
Red Sox - Got the ammo but dont see Rays trading price in the division.
Orioles - See Red Sox
Blue Jays - See Red Sox
Tigers - Highly doubt it, seriously lacking in ammo although Castellanos is a good center piece
Royals- Dont have the money
Twins - Not ready to compete yet
Indians - It would be out of character for them to trade for Price, seriously lacking in money as well
White Sox - they are rebuilding, also have one of if not the worst farm system in the game
A's - I could see Billy trading for Price then re-trading him next offseason and getting a better haul than he gave up. Still a long shot
Rangers - Strong contenders although they are reportedly after bats more than starters. Have top notch trading chips in Martin Perez and Jurickson Profar
Angels - Money is an issue but they are all in imo, ammo is lacking but still doable.
Mariners - Need hitting not pitching
Astros - hahahahahahahahah
Mets - If they did then Price would blow out his arm anyways. Highly unlikely
Phillies - Short on ammo and money but you cant rule out the Rube
Nats - They have the ammo but need hitting more than a starter. Unlikely but I wouldnt rule it out
Cubs - Wont rule it out because they did trade for Garza.
Reds - Lacking money
Cardinals - Cant see them willing to give up a big haul of prospects. But wont rule them out.
Brewers - Rebuilding
Pirates - Cant see them giving up the haul of prospects it would take but it would be a bold move. Also need hitting more than starters
DBacks - They were rumored to really want an ace last offseason. They do have the ammo.
dodgers - Cant count them out in their attempt to buy a world series. Their odds go up if they dont win the WS imo.
Giants - Need hitting far more than starters
Rockies - Rebuilding + lack of money
Padres - no
So I see serious contenders for Price as Rangers, Phillies, Dodgers, DBacks, Angels. Longshots being Cubs, A's, Cards, Pirates and Nats. I think the Braves fit into the serious contenders group. Now if the Rays would trade him within the division I would put the Red Sox and Yankees in the serious conteder group.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Theoretically, the Cubs and Rays match up very well. The Cubs have a terrific group of positional prospects, some of whom are getting close to the majors. Pitching not so much. The Rays are probably most interested in near-major league positional prospects. Baez would get their interest. The Cubs might make him available given they have Bryant to play third (not to mention Olt) and Castro signed to a long-term deal.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
Doubt they trade Baez. Castro has been a huge bust since signing his contract so I think its more likely Castro would be traded.
Also for the people who think it would take Heyward, Freeman, or Simmons to get Price. If thats the price then Price wont be traded. Not a single team would make that kind of trade. Dont bring up Wil Myers because he was still a prospect and the Royals were desperate and their prospects had a habit of sucking.
Also for the people who think it would take Heyward, Freeman, or Simmons to get Price. If thats the price then Price wont be traded. Not a single team would make that kind of trade. Dont bring up Wil Myers because he was still a prospect and the Royals were desperate and their prospects had a habit of sucking.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
If the Uptons were more stable, I would have a hard time passing up a Price for Heyward swap. Regardless of the Uptons, it'd be worth a discussion. And I think it would be perfectly reasonable for them to want one of those three.