bravesnumberone
Well-known member
That was vintage Obama. It's too bad all that optimism was mostly wasted. The reality is things are not all rosy.
Democratic National Convention
- Thread starter The Tariff King
- Start date
I do think in a few decades Obama will be looked upon much more favorably, as well as Bush.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
One thing is for certain. Between the Obamas, Bill Clinton and Joe Biden, the Republicans have no orators remotely close to their league. They haven't had it since Reagan. You might argue Trump, especially if he wins this, but he's in his own sport.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
I don't know, I just watched Reagan get owned by Erroll Flynn this morning in Santa Fe Trail, so I'm not too impressed with his offerings.
Runnin
Well-known member
I guess anything is possible.
I'd say Dubya was a great orator in his own way. He had a charm when he spoke. Obviously not the energy as Obama but he had a comforting style.
His approval ratings have gone up since he left office.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
He's a good man. I really don't think anyone reasonable would dispute that. The Iraq thing will probably continue to hang over his head for a while, as it should, but who really knows how that war will be viewed 20 years down the road?
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
I wouldn't say great, but for a guy with such a rocky relationship with the English language when extemporizing, he could be surprisingly good in set pieces. It's too bad for him that was followed by Obama.
Speaking of following up, I don't envy Hillary having to follow the Obamas and Joe Biden, whose speech was terrific by any measure and quintessentially him.
Yep. I'm reserving my ultimate judgement for later.
It's the same way I feel Obama will ultimately go down much more favorably in a few decades. I think Bush will peak a few more percentage points but I think Obama will jump quite a bit.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
We might be sitting here four years from now waiting on the End Times when Trump's approval rating is 99.9 percent with 57 as the lone holdout and the Braves are world champs.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
Once HRC bests Trump in the debates it will be hard to see Trump winning.
I think the keynote speakers have had very unique tones compared to the RNC where things were much more out of control.
Michelle - The strong motherly presence.
Bernie - The fighter.
Bill - Storytime and the talk.
Joe - That Grandpa/Uncle that makes you laugh and makes you wanna go do something.
BO - That strong presence of assurance and to reaffirm you that things are gonna be ok.
TK - That nice guy you can talk to.
The question now is what type of style and delivery will Hillary give.
striker42
Well-known member
You're probably right. Former presidents grow more popular over time as they distance themselves from the vitriol that surrounded them during their time in office.
I don't think Obama will ever be remembered for his accomplishments as he's been able to get precious little done (blame whoever you want for that, the fact is there hasn't been a ton of movement). The thing that people will remember him for is being the first black president. I think he'll be seen as a symbol because of that and the lack of accomplishments will be forgotten.
I think Bush will always remain something of a polarizing figure. But he's already benefited from post-presidential popularity and that will probably continue.
57Brave
Well-known member
George W Bush is a war criminal that should be in a stockade.
Be it for the grace of Barrack Obama
Tell the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's that died for no reason. The number of Americans that died for no reason
He and only he lit the match to the **** fire in the Middle East
Popular ----- with who ?
Be it for the grace of Barrack Obama
Tell the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's that died for no reason. The number of Americans that died for no reason
He and only he lit the match to the **** fire in the Middle East
Popular ----- with who ?
Yes. And who was the one who pulled the American military out of Iraq which let Isis flourish? Should we charge that person with murder for causing so many Iraqis, Syrians and innocent Europeans to perish because of Isis?
57Brave
Well-known member
Pulling the troops out and abiding by an inherited treaty is not a war crime. Obama's decision to not leave a residual force is up to debate. Then and now.
But that in and of itself is not a war crime
Invading a sovereign nation without provocation --- is a war crime
We could then go to notions of lying to not only the Congress but to the United Nations -- those are not war crimes either.
The invasion and occupation without provocation ...
Let's see how Tony Blair fares
Popular ?
Historians line up calling him the worst President in US history. That too is up to debate -- bottom 3 --- he is right there
But that in and of itself is not a war crime
Invading a sovereign nation without provocation --- is a war crime
We could then go to notions of lying to not only the Congress but to the United Nations -- those are not war crimes either.
The invasion and occupation without provocation ...
Let's see how Tony Blair fares
Popular ?
Historians line up calling him the worst President in US history. That too is up to debate -- bottom 3 --- he is right there
Runnin
Well-known member
Hard to man up with that voice.
There will be plenty for Obama to be remembered on decades from now, especially if some of his other things hold up historically.
He has had the most polarizing Congress to work with since Reconstruction.
Amongst that, history will judge him for these things, whether how popular or not they are right now:
-First major reform of Healthcare since Lyndon Johnson.
-Stimulus which helped get out of Great Recession.
-Auto bailout.
-Lifting Don't Ask Don't Tell
-President when Same-Sex Marriage Legalized by SCOTUS
Now, these are things that will be judged years from now depending on how they work out:
-Iran Deal. If years from now Iran becomes an ally to the US, and the Pro-US Youth in Iran somehow take the government over, then the Iran deal will have been a huge turning point. I'm assuming when Saudi Arabia falls, it will be because of US-Iran ties.
-Cuba. Years from now when the Castros are gone, and maybe the country thrives because of capitalist business influences, and the people there can do same as Iran above, then this will have been a huge turning point.
-Paris Climate Change. Again, if oyu odn't believe in CC then this might be moot. But if clean and green continue to grow years from now, we'll look at if the Paris Agreement had any impact.
Again, I think when you consider he's had the most polarized Congress since reconstruction, he's going to be looked at much more favorably. Also, Trump is pulling the GOP to the center, and a lot of the fringe issues will be dropped if the party continues this way, to try and stay mainstream and win elections. Gay Marriage today is to what Interracial Marriage was 50 years ago. When interracial marriage was legalized it was detested. Years now, conservatives defended interracial marriage but were against SSM. Years from now, SSM will be a normal thing and not unusual.
I would also argue depending on if we get Universal Medicare in our lifetime, that the Obama Movement was a catalyst for it. Without Obama, Bernie woudl have never been a realistic candidate. Bernie is the same candidate Kucinich was 12 years ago. The only difference is Kucinich was seen as extremely left, whereas this cycle Bernie was seen as electable. That's how much the left and the country has shifted. Who knows if the Bernie movement dies with Hillary being elected and the Dems go back to the center. But I doubt that happens and millenials will push for more Bernie progressives, and if that happens it will not have been possible without Obama's Presidency.