DOB: Braves offseason about to get a lot busier. - Gamel released.

Just for clarification, in GM-speak...

"A: I’m not going to get into specific names. Like every organization, we have prospects that we definitely would like to hold onto. … You’re always going to resist trading (them), and then there are going to come times where the deal is just too big and too important for your organization to pass on."

means that NO ONE is "untouchable".

That's straight from the horse's mouth folks. Did he say the same thing before when asked about Heyward, Freeman, Teheran, and many others that wound up not getting traded? Sure. The fact that they didn't only means that he deemed the return unworthy of including them at that particular point in time. Of course the roster at that particular point in time didn't look like the current one does either. Those pitching staffs included names like Lowe, Kawakami, and others.

If you think Frank Wren wouldn't trade Alex Wood or Lucas Sims (or both) for someone that makes Minor a #2, Medlen a #3, Teheran a #4, and Beachy a #5 you're kidding yourself.
 
I would absolutely trade Sims as part of a package for Chris Sale. Sale's a wonderful, wonderful pitcher signed through 2017 at just remarkably affordable prices. Oh, and two option years for 2018 and 2019 for $12.5 million and $13.5 million, respectively. I can't imagine not including Sims in a trade for an ace who's signed to a below-market contract for the next six years. You worry about trading Sims because you don't want to lose the prospect of multiple years of ace-level pitching, but by acquiring Sale in exchange you get those multiple years of ace-level pitching.

Sims is an excellent pitching prospect, of course, but he's also an excellent Low-A pitching prospect, and Low-A pitchers are best looked at as one might look at the fancy car in the dealer showroom that you're $15,000 a year away from being able to afford: admire it, dream about it, plan for a day when you can have it, but never count on it. And certainly never pass up another option because of it.

The chances of Sims ever being as good a pitcher as Chris Sale are extraordinarily small.
 
nsacpi said:
I wouldn't include Wood, Sims or Cabrera in a trade for Samardzija.

I would offer Bethancourt and any three minor league pitchers besides those three. Note that players taken in the 2013 draft can't be traded yet. That would still leave some pretty interesting pitchers for the Cubs to choose from: Graham, Hale, Parsons, Simmons, Thomas, Martin, Gilmartin. If that's not enough, I would wish good luck to the Cubs getting a better package from the Yankees or some other club.
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Agree.

Like the JUp trade. They thought they could get more....then they came back when they found out what the market was. I think CB + 3 Gilmartin type arms is solid...not great, but solid. I think if I was the cubs I'd hold onto him and see if injuries get anyone desperate at the deadline....but you never know.
 
I'm not a fan of FW's idea of keeping the same team and tweaking it.

I think we need to do better. I know we racked up good win totals and numbers last year. But I think the division is going to be much better next year. I don't believe in CJ. I don't believe in Uggla or BJ (other than they can't be worse). We'll need health and a step up from Gattis, FF, Heyward, and Simmons on offense (at least 2 of the 4).

Problem is, I don't know who or what I'd target for the big move I think we need. We are not getting an impact bat from anywhere I can think of at the moment. I hope something shakes loose at the meetings.
 
Kevin McAlpin ‏@KevinMcAlpin 3h

Frank Wren: "I think we're in a better spot than most teams because we dont have a dire need for a front line player" #Braves
 
Russ2dollas said:
I'm not a fan of FW's idea of keeping the same team and tweaking it.

I think we need to do better. I know we racked up good win totals and numbers last year. But I think the division is going to be much better next year. I don't believe in CJ. I don't believe in Uggla or BJ (other than they can't be worse). We'll need health and a step up from Gattis, FF, Heyward, and Simmons on offense (at least 2 of the 4).

Problem is, I don't know who or what I'd target for the big move I think we need. We are not getting an impact bat from anywhere I can think of at the moment. I hope something shakes loose at the meetings.
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I wouldnt mind Howie Kendrick from the Angels, if we can dump Uggla.

Outside of that, im not sure what we can do on offense to improve much.
 
clvclv said:
Just for clarification, in GM-speak...

"A: I’m not going to get into specific names. Like every organization, we have prospects that we definitely would like to hold onto. … You’re always going to resist trading (them), and then there are going to come times where the deal is just too big and too important for your organization to pass on."

means that NO ONE is "untouchable".

That's straight from the horse's mouth folks. Did he say the same thing before when asked about Heyward, Freeman, Teheran, and many others that wound up not getting traded? Sure. The fact that they didn't only means that he deemed the return unworthy of including them at that particular point in time. Of course the roster at that particular point in time didn't look like the current one does either. Those pitching staffs included names like Lowe, Kawakami, and others.

If you think Frank Wren wouldn't trade Alex Wood or Lucas Sims (or both) for someone that makes Minor a #2, Medlen a #3, Teheran a #4, and Beachy a #5 you're kidding yourself.
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If we could get Sale for a package with Sims, you do it, since he's signed to a very team-friendly deal.

But outside of him or Price (not happening), who is he worth trading for?
 
Heyward said:
If we could get Sale for a package with Sims, you do it, since he's signed to a very team-friendly deal.

But outside of him or Price (not happening), who is he worth trading for?
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I don't have any specific knowledge that says Sims wouldn't be included (if needed) to get Samardzija. The problem is that the honest answer is that none of us have a clue.

What I do "know" is that no one other than people that work in the Braves organization or are Braves fans currently view Lucas Sims as a top of the rotation guy. What I do "know" is that the industry perception is that the organization hasn't produced a true #1 since Wainright, and he wasn't considered a "true #1" before he was traded. If you speak to those not affected one iota by their Braves' colored glasses, you'll hear them say that we don't really have a #1 in our system.

Sickels - "1) Lucas Sims, RHP, Grade B+. Borderline A-. All the attributes of a future number two starter. I want to see how he handles a larger workload going forward, but that’s nitpicking at this point. Clearly the class of the system. Went 12-4, 2.62 with 134/46 K/BB in 117 innings in Low-A, just 83 hits. Low-to-mid-90s, good curve and change, throws strikes, athletic. Complete package."

BA - ..."The Braves would prefer him to put in full seasons at high Class A Lynchburg and Double-A Mississippi over the next two years as he continues his development as a potential No. 2 starter in an Atlanta rotation that already features many homegrown arms."

These quotes are painting Sims as a potential #2 (well into the future if things fall as hoped) in a system that hasn't had a #1 in some time. Frank Wren is more aware of this than anyone else - GM-speak notwithstanding.
 
Wren does a pretty good job of holding on to those prospects that the scouting department tells him have a chance to be impact players. Look at the Justin Upton trade and his comments afterwards. He said multiple times that the Braves liked Randall Delgado quite a bit but saw a clear distinction between him and Teheran. So they held on to Teheran and let Delgado go. Also as far as I know Wren never entertained offers for guys like Heyward, Freeman, Hanson and Minor while they were coming up. Is Sims in the same class? Only those within the organization know, but I think he's pretty close to being an "inner circle" type prospect.
 
MadduxFanII said:
I would absolutely trade Sims as part of a package for Chris Sale. Sale's a wonderful, wonderful pitcher signed through 2017 at just remarkably affordable prices. Oh, and two option years for 2018 and 2019 for $12.5 million and $13.5 million, respectively. I can't imagine not including Sims in a trade for an ace who's signed to a below-market contract for the next six years. You worry about trading Sims because you don't want to lose the prospect of multiple years of ace-level pitching, but by acquiring Sale in exchange you get those multiple years of ace-level pitching.

Sims is an excellent pitching prospect, of course, but he's also an excellent Low-A pitching prospect, and Low-A pitchers are best looked at as one might look at the fancy car in the dealer showroom that you're $15,000 a year away from being able to afford: admire it, dream about it, plan for a day when you can have it, but never count on it. And certainly never pass up another option because of it.

The chances of Sims ever being as good a pitcher as Chris Sale are extraordinarily small.
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As someone who is deeply reluctant to give any pitcher a long-term deal, I have to say that Chris Sale's contract is amazingly team friendly given the contracts we are seeing in today's market and it makes him much more valuable than David Price. Not better than David Price but much more valuable as a trade asset. I'd give up a lot more for Sale than I would Price.
 
I think judging by Wren today, we can expect the Braves to be pretty quiet during these meetings. Myself after dissappointments at these meetings the last few years I am tempering my expectations.
 
Don't think the braves have ever made any big splashes at the meetings. Sheffield, upton trades were in January. Huddy trade was post winter meetings. BJ was a November signing. Uggla trade was November too I think.
 
I would make an aggressive bid for Sale if it was me. I would go so far as to add Beachy, Gilmartin and Bethancourt plus some other minor leaguer like a Terdoslavich. It would fill the White sox needs and give us a low cost guy with great numbers and a lefty to boot at the top of the rotation for 7 years. I do not see Gilmartin in a Braves uniform any time soon, Wood zoomed past him and I expect Sims and Graham to do the same. As nice as Terdo is he is expendable given our current roster make up. Beachy could be great, at the same time Sale is worth the cost.
 
But the question must be asked: why would the White Sox even remotely entertain trading Sale?

One of the answers that comes to mind immediately is his long-term durability. A lot of pundits say his delivery is problematic, but after watching some video it doesn't seem that violent.
 
Hawk said:
But the question must be asked: why would the White Sox even remotely entertain trading Sale?

One of the answers that comes to mind immediately is his long-term durability. A lot of pundits say his delivery is problematic, but after watching some video it doesn't seem that violent.
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What are they going to do with Sale besides lose a lot of games? If you can trade him for a big haul to help your future then it's certainly something to consider.
 
thewupk said:
What are they going to do with Sale besides lose a lot of games? If you can trade him for a big haul to help your future then it's certainly something to consider.
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He's 24 and under team control until he is 30. He is their future.

Plus, it's not like Chicago is some mid-market team that has to even bother with rebuilding.
 
Hawk said:
He's 24 and under team control until he is 30. He is their future.

Plus, it's not like Chicago is some mid-market team that has to even bother with rebuilding.
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Yeah, they do, they are 2-3 years away from contending.
 
nsacpi said:
Wren does a pretty good job of holding on to those prospects that the scouting department tells him have a chance to be impact players. Look at the Justin Upton trade and his comments afterwards. He said multiple times that the Braves liked Randall Delgado quite a bit but saw a clear distinction between him and Teheran. So they held on to Teheran and let Delgado go. Also as far as I know Wren never entertained offers for guys like Heyward, Freeman, Hanson and Minor while they were coming up. Is Sims in the same class? Only those within the organization know, but I think he's pretty close to being an "inner circle" type prospect.
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One never knows who to believe. Some talking head during the playoffs said that the Braves gave the D-Backs their choice and the D-Backs chose Delgado. The question becomes, did their choice of Delgado require the Braves to throw in another player.
 
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