DOB has blown the whistle on the clubhouse; now what?

I don't think the personalities on this team are the kind that would react well to lighting a fire.

Even Bobby never really let a fire under his team, he did it to the umpires. We don't need a Piniella or Bowa type that's going to just yell just to yell.
 
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Next Braves manager! Beer, chicken, and ping pong in the clubhouse!
 
If Fredi ever gets fired, I assume naturally the next pick is going to be Pendleton. Played for Bobby for 3-4 years, was a coach under Bobby for 8 years.
 
Yes. The hard part is to keep playing hard and doing all the little things that go toward winning when things are not going well. The 2011 Cardinals were having a very disappointing year until the last five weeks of the season. They weren't catching any breaks and were getting far enough behind that it would have been easy to pack it in. But they kept battling and the breaks started going their way. They had control about the battling and playing hard part. They had no control over the breaks. But the team has to take care of the things it can control. And those things are the preparation, the effort, the staying focused.

Here is a little bit of history about the 2011 Cardinals (before their comeback):

At the beginning of the month the Cardinals were 2 1⁄2 games behind the Brewers in the standings. However, they lost two of three to Milwaukee on the road Aug. 1–3, then did the same at home on Aug. 9–11, giving the Brewers a four-game lead in the NL Central. The team continued to stumble as the Brewers continued to win. Newly acquired shortstop Furcal hit only .240 for the month. The Cardinals went 2–4 on a six-game road trip to Pittsburgh and Chicago, then came home and were swept in three games by a bad Dodger team. After close of business on August 24, the day the Dodgers completed their sweep, St. Louis had fallen ten games behind Milwaukee in the NL Central standings and 101⁄2 games behind the Atlanta Braves (and in third place) in the NL Wild Card standings. Manager Tony La Russa said on the struggles: "I guarantee that the team you have seen the past few weeks is not the team we have, and I believe you will start to see our team tomorrow." Chris Carpenter and other veterans called for a closed, player-only team meeting, which was held the day after the Dodgers series ended. St. Louis' odds of making the playoffs stood at 1.3%.

The sweep by Los Angeles dropped the Cardinals to 67–63.

The problem is that we aren't getting bad breaks, in some respect we are getting breaks ands till only 4 games over .500 (1 game ahead of pythag) We were outscored by 7 runs in June and managed to be 2 games over .500. We just don't have the talent right now. There are 2 hitters in the lineup that the opposing pitcher really has to worry about and they are only mid .800 OPS guys. There are 3 pretty easy outs plus the pitcher. If you are going to score less than 4 runs per game, you better have a dominant staff and while are pitching is good, it's not good enough to carry this ****ty offense.

That's already putting an terrible manager behind the 8 ball before he can ever screw it up worse.
 
The problem is that we aren't getting bad breaks.

Yeah, we haven't been unlucky over the whole season. But on this particular west coast trip we have 4 one run losses, three in extra innings. You split those four games and it is a poor road trip, but not a disastrous one.
 
Yeah, we haven't been unlucky over the whole season. But on this particular west coast trip we have 4 one run losses, three in extra innings. You split those four games and it is a poor road trip, but not a disastrous one.

Typical regression from a hot start in 1 run games. (17-19 overall right now)
 
That could not be further from the truth. He's the only young guy on this team that acts like a leader. Freddie is a clown, Kimbrel is pretty arrogant and Simmons seems to be a hot head at times. If anyone leads by example it's Jason freaking Heyward.

Maybe the real problem is that our manager is the guy that has the demeanor of a role player.

Completely agree Heyward has all the qualities to be the face of the franchise. He's also the only player that busts his a*s every single day and plays with fire. He now just needs to become a consistent producer offensively to lead by example.
 
Doesn't help that the Front Office didn't exactly extend a vote of confidence toward the team by trading for spare bits (Bonifacio & Russell) at the deadline.

I am very relucatant to put much of this on Wren. He didn't have two starters go down with TJ surgery within days of one another. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say if he saw that coming or if it had occurred earlier, he would have given Hudson the two-year deal he wanted to stay.

Wren getting Harang and Santana when all else were panicking has kept this team in the race.

He did pull the trigger on Uggla early enough to make a difference.

He was able to get to decent role players from the Cubs for free (money wise).

Until this week, we were less than two games out of the lead, so there was no need to blow anything up. That's changing quickly, and Wren has never (contrary to some vocal posters) turned a blind eye to this team's needs. It takes two to tango to pull off a trade, however, and it's now clear he has no budget left to bring in a pricey rental, probably until September. ]

Could they make a wow move at the August deadline? Absolutely, but they might be six or seven games back by then and it won't matter.
 
Bottom line is this team plays with no passion or sense of urgency. Ever since Fredi took over this team just sleepwalks. We need a new manager who can light a fire on his team and be the leader.

I'm calling BS on this. He was the skipper when Conrad was pulling games out of the fire and the city was going nuts. He was the manager when they ripped off more than one long winning streak last year (remember April 2013? Too bad if you missed it). There is no one player willing to do what Terry Pendleton did for this team in 1991-92, and I bet it breaks his heart every day to see these guys shrug it off.

In hindsight, the long-term deals might not have been a good thing in every case. Teheran, obviously, was a great move, but Simmons and Freeman don't seem to get that these deals put them on the line as LEADERS in every way.
 
Who constructed the team?

I think chemistry is overrated because everybody is happy (generally) when winning, but adversity does reveal character. This is a very young team and they are learning the non-playing field aspect of the game. Some folks are going to have to grow up fast because things appear to be disintegrating.

I freakin lightweight, that who. And one who makes 1 million a year "building " team that is crumbling before our very eyes, lacking hustle, brains, and leadership, all those intangibles that smart baseball men can glean but this poser has no clue re.

I'll take Prado over Mr solo HR any day, stats notwithstanding. Wren and Fredi are both culpable.
 
Yeah, we haven't been unlucky over the whole season. But on this particular west coast trip we have 4 one run losses, three in extra innings. You split those four games and it is a poor road trip, but not a disastrous one.

The Padres gave us a run yesterday and we could have finished them off with productive out. Didn't; couldn't even make an out that would score a man from 3rd. That ain't unlucky, that's bad.
 
I don't think the personalities on this team are the kind that would react well to lighting a fire.

Even Bobby never really let a fire under his team, he did it to the umpires. We don't need a Piniella or Bowa type that's going to just yell just to yell.

Agree, a kick ass manager would be such a shock to these wimps they'd all be afraid to come to the games. But we need a new manager. This one's a deer in the headlights.
 
That could not be further from the truth. He's the only young guy on this team that acts like a leader. Freddie is a clown, Kimbrel is pretty arrogant and Simmons seems to be a hot head at times. If anyone leads by example it's Jason freaking Heyward.

Maybe the real problem is that our manager is the guy that has the demeanor of a role player.

I'm sorry but I disagree. From the outside looking in, it seems like Heyward is just buying his time to where he can hit the market. It definitely appears as if he doesn't want to be here and that's all well and good.
 
I'm sorry but I disagree. From the outside looking in, it seems like Heyward is just buying his time to where he can hit the market. It definitely appears as if he doesn't want to be here and that's all well and good.

Yeah the guy who acts like a complete professional on and off the field while always hustling and going all out is just "buying his time".(you're looking for "biding your time") I guess all that fire he shows on the field when his teammates drive him in or make a great play is all just a show and of course he always makes himself available for interviews unlike some of his teammates. But please feel free to actually give me an example behind your theory instead of a baseless opinion.

And you may have no problem with him leaving in free agency but I think most people realize he holds this team together and is the only guy that is willing to assume a leadership role. If we let him walk this team is going to be lead by an arrogant clown and a bunch of other guys that have got paid already. I don't look forward to that at all.
 
I am very relucatant to put much of this on Wren. He didn't have two starters go down with TJ surgery within days of one another. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say if he saw that coming or if it had occurred earlier, he would have given Hudson the two-year deal he wanted to stay.

Wren getting Harang and Santana when all else were panicking has kept this team in the race.

He did pull the trigger on Uggla early enough to make a difference.

He was able to get to decent role players from the Cubs for free (money wise).

Until this week, we were less than two games out of the lead, so there was no need to blow anything up. That's changing quickly, and Wren has never (contrary to some vocal posters) turned a blind eye to this team's needs. It takes two to tango to pull off a trade, however, and it's now clear he has no budget left to bring in a pricey rental, probably until September. ]

Could they make a wow move at the August deadline? Absolutely, but they might be six or seven games back by then and it won't matter.

I have no problem with Wren's approach at the deadline, but since he's taken over, he has to lead the universe in the amount of "dead" money (or almost dead in he case of Upton the Elder) the franchise has paid out over his tenure.

Can't predict injuries, but there were more than a few of us who believed Uggla wouldn't be productive through his contract. We've got a decent core, but as gilesfan said, there are a ton of holes in this line-up.
 
I am very relucatant to put much of this on Wren. He didn't have two starters go down with TJ surgery within days of one another. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say if he saw that coming or if it had occurred earlier, he would have given Hudson the two-year deal he wanted to stay.

Wren getting Harang and Santana when all else were panicking has kept this team in the race.

He did pull the trigger on Uggla early enough to make a difference.

He was able to get to decent role players from the Cubs for free (money wise).

Until this week, we were less than two games out of the lead, so there was no need to blow anything up. That's changing quickly, and Wren has never (contrary to some vocal posters) turned a blind eye to this team's needs. It takes two to tango to pull off a trade, however, and it's now clear he has no budget left to bring in a pricey rental, probably until September. ]

Could they make a wow move at the August deadline? Absolutely, but they might be six or seven games back by then and it won't matter.

Harang and Wood/Floyd make up for Medlen/Beachy and then some
 
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