Farewell to Wood, Peraza, Jimmy Johns, and Avilans.

Hawk said:
Now you are arguing against yourself.

How? We aren't winning.
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Whatever, dude. We made out well in that deal. The Cardinals making out well is contingent on them winning the WS. You can win a deal and not win a lot of games the following year. Luckily we have three more with Shelby - probably would have had one with Heyward (and we wouldn't have won with him). They just traded Kaminsky for Moss - if they win the WS, does that mean they won that deal? Because I don't think that's a great deal for them. And they still have to win the WS, which I'm not going to assume.

What if Heyward hits .200 in the playoffs and they still win? .360 and they don't win? They're a great team all around.
 
Hawk said:
I'd counter that neither Miller or Jenkins were integral cogs in the Cardinals future plans. So you make the moves necessary, given your strengths, to put your team in the best possible position to win. It's worked out very well for them so far.
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You'd discount that with Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz rotating winning the Cy Young each year Wainright wasn't an integral cog, right?
 
zbhargrove said:
Smoke and mirrors which is typical from you... this has nothing to do with Markakis and I'm not a fan. Heyward was not very good at the plate the last two years as a Brave outside of a few hot streaks... he just wasn't.
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I use facts. WRC+ of 100 means you are league average. I hope you understand what average means. If Heward was at 115 the last two years that means he is 15% better than league average. That puts him into good category. Anything else I can help you understand?
 
Hawk said:
I'd counter that neither Miller or Jenkins were integral cogs in the Cardinals future plans. So you make the moves necessary, given your strengths, to put your team in the best possible position to win. It's worked out very well for them so far.
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You're right... Miller was a top 5 prospect in baseball and the second best pitching prospect in baseball his last year in the minors... had a fantastic rookie year... a down sophmore year... and added a pitch the second half of his 3rd year with fantastic results. Yah... wasn't considered a part of the Cards future at all... they were pretty much trying to give him away.
 
yeezus said:
Whatever, dude. We made out well in that deal. The Cardinals making out well is contingent on them winning the WS. You can win a deal and not win a lot of games the following year. Luckily we have three more with Shelby - probably would have had one with Heyward (and we wouldn't have won with him). They just traded Kaminsky for Moss - if they win the WS, does that mean they won that deal? Because I don't think that's a great deal for them. And they still have to win the WS, which I'm not going to assume.

What if Heyward hits .200 in the playoffs and they still win? .360 and they don't win? They're a great team all around.
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Winning the world series is an interesting criterion for evaluating deals.
 
thewupk said:
I use facts. WRC+ of 100 means you are league average. I hope you understand what average means. If Heward was at 115 the last two years that means he is 15% better than league average. That puts him into good category. Anything else I can help you understand?
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That's not worth the money he was rumored to be demanding... and it obviously didn't help us win when he was all the sudden supposed to be the face of the franchise, did it?
 
zbhargrove said:
You're right... Miller was a top 5 prospect in baseball and the second best pitching prospect in baseball his last year in the minors... had a fantastic rookie year... a down sophmore year... and added a pitch the second half of his 3rd year with fantastic results. Yah... wasn't considered a part of the Cards future at all... they were pretty much trying to give him away.
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Did I say that? I insinuated that Miller/Jenkins were expendable given St. Louis' pitching depth. Clearly they aren't hurting without them.
 
I'm done with the Heyward crap... has nothing to do with this thread. Has everything to do with certain individuals trying to bring him up and whine like little girls whenever they can. Without giving Miller any credit at all.
 
clvclv said:
You'd discount that with Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz rotating winning the Cy Young each year Wainright wasn't an integral cog, right?
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Different scenario. Given the composition of their rotation, namely its age and expense, the Braves shouldn't have traded Wainwright.
 
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