Fast food workers go on strike

Temo said:
My feelings on the matter are kinda complex, but what I can't stand is selective enforcement of free market-ism. Either stand by it or don't.

(I largely don't believe in absolute free market capitalism, yet also think the minimum wage is of limited use... go figure)

Like Hawk, I think if you have strong unions, the minimum wage will by and large take care of itself. I'm ok with the concept of a minimum wage to prevent labor abuse, but establishing a very high minimum wage will do more harm than good.
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I don't think these coercive lawyer run unions are truly free market, but neither is today's corporatism.

I don't understand it when you say you don't like selective enforcement of free market economics, but at the same time you essentially say that you yourself believe in selective enforcement of free market.

Glad to see you posting more on here. Always appreciate your opinions. Now we just need a few more conservatives.
 
jpx7 said:
False.

Also: the Hobson's choice you seem to idealize isn't really much of a choice at all.
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Is anyone forcing you to work there? Did they put a gun to your head?

Last time I checked there are other jobs if you are too dumb to go to school to work at. Landscaping pays pretty good, pick fruit and vegetables, bust tables, there are many other jobs you can obtain without the need of forcing a company to pay you more than what the job requires with NO EDUCATION.
 
Hawk said:
Where did you live in Europe?
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Primarily England for a few years and Germany a lot of years. I played in the 4th division basketball (you don't get paid much, but this was like a fun part time job) over there for four years by actually being in the right place at the right time. Because of that, I was able to travel to a lot of places and during that time each country required visas until the wall came down.
 
Temo said:
My feelings on the matter are kinda complex, but what I can't stand is selective enforcement of free market-ism. Either stand by it or don't.

(I largely don't believe in absolute free market capitalism, yet also think the minimum wage is of limited use... go figure)

Like Hawk, I think if you have strong unions, the minimum wage will by and large take care of itself. I'm ok with the concept of a minimum wage to prevent labor abuse, but establishing a very high minimum wage will do more harm than good.
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This article explains your last line to a "T"
 
Hawk said:
Not only does Germany have a superb standard of living (frankly, echelons above our own) but their general workforce is considered highly qualified. Not to rub salt in a long festering wound, but there's also their 5% unemployment and AAA credit rating. But I digress.

Why should an individual who works in the fast food business be entitled to the same minimum wage as a skilled mechanic or other specifically educated professional? That's inane. That's socialism.

Wages should be controlled by industry demand, negotiated by corporations and unions, with scant government interference/oversight.
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Find me a mechanic or specifically-educated professional in the country who is now toiling for the minimum wage. I highly doubt there is one. Those individuals work for scale on which there is a minimum, but that minimum exceeds (usually greatly) the legally-prescribed minimum hourly wage.
 
Some general thoughts about the topic.

I'm not prepared to say that raising the minimum wage wouldn't increase unemployment, but I do think that we're often quick to ignore all of the moving parts in some of these questions, and embrace a simplistic economic model that both supports our preconceptions and elides some of the complexity.

Second, there's just something fundamentally . . . I dunno, ungracious or something, about the way some of y'all are bitching about people who are engaging in activism to try to earn some respect and a living wage. We've spilled a lot of virtual ink in this forum debating public assistance. Y'all don't like welfare. You resent your tax dollars being used for unemployment benefits, or to buy food and diapers for poor families. Fine. So now you're going to bitch about the working poor? People who are doing exactly what, in your estimation, they ought to be doing?

Life doesn't include a guarantee of fairness, but isn't it a valid complaint to point out that today's minimum wage doesn't have the buying power of the minimum wage three and four decades ago, even as productivity and corporate profits have increased? People don't look twice at cost-of-living adjustments for executives and salaried workers. Isn't that something worth getting worked up about, since it means more families in poverty, less able to gain access to the resources necessary to join the middle class?

Conservatives like to get misty-eyed about the greatness of America. Isn't this question at the heart of what that greatness is all about?
 
weso1 said:
I don't think these coercive lawyer run unions are truly free market, but neither is today's corporatism.

I don't understand it when you say you don't like selective enforcement of free market economics, but at the same time you essentially say that you yourself believe in selective enforcement of free market.

Glad to see you posting more on here. Always appreciate your opinions. Now we just need a few more conservatives.
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How do you figure?
 
So if I wanted to get some extra cash for the holidays - and I go to Target and want to work. They say "sorry, we can't afford any more workers at $7.25."

I say, that's ok, I'll work for $5.00 cause I really want some extra cash. And they are willing to pay me that, and I'm willing to work for that.

But the government says I'm not allowed to make that agreement. So I don't get that extra cash I want.

It's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.
 
sturg33 said:
So if I wanted to get some extra cash for the holidays - and I go to Target and want to work. They say "sorry, we can't afford any more workers at $7.25."

I say, that's ok, I'll work for $5.00 cause I really want some extra cash. And they are willing to pay me that, and I'm willing to work for that.

But the government says I'm not allowed to make that agreement. So I don't get that extra cash I want.

It's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.
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Well, perhaps you should avail yourself of the magical free market to find a better situation. Nobody said you had to work at Target. Perhaps you should get a student loan and go back to school.
 
Julio3000 said:
Well, perhaps you should avail yourself of the magical free market to find a better situation. Nobody said you had to work at Target. Perhaps you should get a student loan and go back to school.
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In case you couldn't tell... this is a hypothetical.

But it seems that you are completely OK with the situation outlined above. Where a company agrees to pay me something, and I agree to work for it, and the government says "No."
 
sturg33 said:
In case you couldn't tell... this is a hypothetical.

But it seems that you are completely OK with the situation outlined above. Where a company agrees to pay me something, and I agree to work for it, and the government says "No."
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In case you couldn't tell . . . my answer was facetious.
 
I live in DC. Walmart was going to build a store in DC. It was going to bring hundreds of jobs and finally offer a more affordable shopping place in the ridiculously overprice DC area.

The DC Council came in and said "You can build a store here, but you have to pay all employees no less than $12.00 (maybe $15.00 - don't remember) an hour.

Of course, Walmart says no. Walks away. And the government ensured shutting down a company that would be good for a whole lot of people.
 
Walmart is a notorious small business and job killer.

So good job DC council. Less walmarts make for a better America.
 
sturg33 said:
In case you couldn't tell... this is a hypothetical.

But it seems that you are completely OK with the situation outlined above. Where a company agrees to pay me something, and I agree to work for it, and the government says "No."
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And yes, I'm completely OK with the government having the ability to interfere in an unlawful contract.
 
The argument that "It's not enough to feed a family" doesn't work for me. If McDonalds is your source of income, then you shouldn't start a family. Personal responsibility is severely lacking in this country.
 
Bj1133 said:
The argument that "It's not enough to feed a family" doesn't work for me. If McDonalds is your source of income, then you shouldn't start a family. Personal responsibility is severely lacking in this country.
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What if you had a better job but lost it? I guess you should have taken personal responsibility for accurately forecasting the global economic trends that led to your getting laid off.

Again, it's crazy to see this vitriol against the working poor. Have you guys had empathectomies or something?
 
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