Freddie Freeman

Horsehide Harry said:
I think that is predicting the future.

Many have tagged Harper as a future HoF. And that might happen (or not). He has the ROY, and MVP, 4 time All-Star, Silver Slugger and is 23. He needs about 8-10 more years approaching 2015 levels to be HoF or 15-18 more years approaching 2016 levels to be HoF. He has a career dWAR of 0.2 (Bref). He's 23.

And it might happen with Freeman as well, but for it to happen for him, he would need about 12 more years like this year. He has a #2 in ROY, a 5 and 23 in MVP, 2 time All Star, career dWAR of (-4.6). He is 26.

There is a lot of years each has to go to be considered best of All time. At one time Dale Murphy was the best player in the game by a significant margin and he isn't in the HoF and won't get there. A lot can happen.

But, I think a big component of value that is often overlooked is player potential. People think Harper's potential is better than Freeman's. That doesn't mean he will have a better career. And players get paid for potential all the time. Take Heyward as a prime example.
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I was actually referring to if Harper only hit like he did in 2016 or 2014 last year. Would that still be the opinion of most players? No doubt that Harper has elite talent and has had ungoldy hype. Freeman has better numbers over the last 4 years and has been way more consistent. Harper has age on his side for sure. Will only be 24 next season and not even close to his prime yet whereas Freeman is now entering his.
 
Anyone comparing Harper to Freeman is just being a complete homer. Continuing to bring up Harper in a thread that has nothing to do with him is a passive aggressive move typical of little bitches. Why aren't folks that do it around here called out for it?

Freeman is good. Freeman will challenge for MVP awards. Freeman might have a decent case for the HoF 20 years from now.

As good as Freeman is, he is quite obviously a few notches below a healthy Harper in terms of both current and potential value. Insisting on arguing otherwise is, again, being willingly ignorant.
 
Enscheff said:
Anyone comparing Harper to Freeman is just being a complete homer. Continuing to bring up Harper in a thread that has nothing to do with him is a passive aggressive move typical of little bitches. Why aren't folks that do it around here called out for it?

Freeman is good. Freeman will challenge for MVP awards. Freeman might have a decent case for the HoF 20 years from now.

As good as Freeman is, he is quite obviously a few notches below a healthy Harper in terms of both current and potential value. Insisting on arguing otherwise is, again, being willingly ignorant.
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So who's been a better hitter the last 4 seasons?
 
thewupk said:
So who's been a better hitter the last 4 seasons?
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Huh? You bold "current value" then ask about who has been the better hitter? Your attempted counter-point isn't even counter to the very point you bolded 15 seconds before typing your response. How could someone possibly go off point in such a short span of time? It took you 15 seconds and a single 10 word sentence to lose the point.

They have posted nearly identical WAR values over their careers, and Harper is 3 years younger. Harper has a higher career OPS, plays average or better defense at a more demanding position, all while being 3 years younger. Nobody outside of a few delusional Braves fans thinks Freeman is as valuable as Harper.
 
Enscheff said:
Huh? You bold "current value" then ask about who has been the better hitter? Your attempted counter-point isn't even counter to the very point you bolded 15 seconds before typing your response. How could someone possibly go off point in such a short span of time? It took you 15 seconds and a single 10 word sentence to lose the point.

They have posted nearly identical WAR values over their careers, and Harper is 3 years younger. Harper has a higher career OPS, plays average or better defense at a more demanding position, all while being 3 years younger. Nobody outside of a few delusional Braves fans thinks Freeman is as valuable as Harper.
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Current as in is what they are currently doing not potential. As long as Harper keeps posting WRC+'s in 110-120 range like he has 2 of the last 3 years he's not going to be better than most. I don't know why you are talking about defense and value when I clearly stated hitting. Do you have a problem with basic reading? Freeman is responsible for more weighted runs above average than Harper over the last 4 years. And he's actually 3rd in the NL overall in that span as well.
 
thewupk said:
Current as in is what they are currently doing not potential. As long as Harper keeps posting WRC+'s in 110-120 range like he has 2 of the last 3 years he's not going to be better than most. I don't know why you are talking about defense and value when I clearly stated hitting. Do you have a problem with basic reading? Freeman is responsible for more weighted runs above average than Harper over the last 4 years. And he's actually 3rd in the NL overall in that span as well.
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Harper is a full three years younger though.
I don't expect Freeman to ever touch Harper's 2015, but I'd be surprised if Harper doesn't get back up around the 5-7 fWAR range, consistently, for the next several years.
 
yeezus said:
Harper is a full three years younger though.
I don't expect Freeman to ever touch Harper's 2015, but I'd be surprised if Harper doesn't get back up around the 5-7 fWAR range, consistently, for the next several years.
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I'm not so sure: being a giant, walking douche-bag means he's often carrying around a lot of dirty-water weight, which obviously can wreak havoc on his productivity.
 
yeezus said:
Harper is a full three years younger though.
I don't expect Freeman to ever touch Harper's 2015, but I'd be surprised if Harper doesn't get back up around the 5-7 fWAR range, consistently, for the next several years.
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Yeah age is certainly on Harpers side. But has he shown anything to where he can consistently be a 140 WRC+ hitter right now? Because that's what Freeman is.
 
thewupk said:
Current as in is what they are currently doing not potential. As long as Harper keeps posting WRC+'s in 110-120 range like he has 2 of the last 3 years he's not going to be better than most. I don't know why you are talking about defense and value when I clearly stated hitting. Do you have a problem with basic reading? Freeman is responsible for more weighted runs above average than Harper over the last 4 years. And he's actually 3rd in the NL overall in that span as well.
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Except I didn't quote you and bold something for emphasis, and then proceed to miss the very point I bolded.

I added a statement about Harper being a more valuable player. Anyone can plainly see Freeman has been more consistently excellent offensively than Harper. Baseball teams value players based on more than offensive production though.
 
Enscheff said:
Except I didn't quote you and bold something for emphasis, and then proceed to miss the very point I bolded.

I added a statement about Harper being a more valuable player. Anyone can plainly see Freeman has been more consistently excellent offensively than Harper. Baseball teams value players based on more than offensive production though.
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So why enter a thread with that when we are discussing offensive ability only?
 
thewupk said:
So why enter a thread with that when we are discussing offensive ability only?
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Maybe because the conversation turned to the MVP race, which literally has the word "valuable" right in the name of the award?

That's what the V stands for in case you didn't know.
 
Enscheff said:
Maybe because the conversation turned to the MVP race, which literally has the word "valuable" right in the name of the award?

That's what the V stands for in case you didn't know.
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Which has many different interpretations and doesn't always correspond with a players "value".
 
Enscheff said:
Maybe because the conversation turned to the MVP race, which literally has the word "valuable" right in the name of the award?

That's what the V stands for in case you didn't know.
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But you seem to be talking about trade value as well, at least in reference to age. MVP certainly isn't given to the guy with the highest trade value.

And the only mention of MVP outside of you was simply a listing of where they'd already finished in the voting. There was no discussion around who is more likely to win MVPs.

You're bizarre.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I still would given the right return. I view it from a straight long term roster construction viewpoint.

The Braves WON'T do it because there is more to it than straight baseball decisions such as offering the fanbase a ray of hope and putting fans in the seats, which I understand and accept as necessary.
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Yes we know you'd trade him... It's like beating a dead horse at this point
 
....and a simple "yay, Freddie" post on the day he's named player of the week for the third time this season turns into a full-fledged dick measuring contest among the penile class here at CC. Here's a thought - why don't you guys head over to Joe West and post life size specimens and put up a poll and vote on that ****?

Yay, Freddie. Kick more ass next year and years after.
 
In Freeman's current 29 game hit streak he is hitting 382/477/673 - 1150 OPS with 7 homers and 27 RBI, 24 runs, and of course 2 steals.
 
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