Fredi Gonzalez Supporters Thread

Gary82 said:
I don't believe that.
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Biggest egos Bobby ever had to deal with?

Justice? Lofton? Sheffield? Wickman?

Justice grew up in our system. Had a mouth but still competed with class. Lofton was here for a year. Sheffield was quiet during his time here. Wickman was gone after reports of his attitude surfaced.

Bj while he's sucked has not been a problem here whatsoever off the field or there's been no major reports of such.

Freeman ran his mouth off when he got DL'd and I think Fredi has played gim every game since. Justin has been quiet.

Heyward is a guy that has been levelheaded and mature since he was brought up.

Hudson is the only guy to talk smack about Fredi publicly but then again Huddy is like Chipper. Isn't really gonna sugar coat how he feels. Everyone made a huge deal about Kimbrel disrespecting Fredi and spun it as somehow being Fredi's fault instead of Kimbrel acting like a disrespectful child.
 
BJ#1FAN said:
Biggest egos Bobby ever had to deal with?

Justice? Lofton? Sheffield? Wickman?

Justice grew up in our system. Had a mouth but still competed with class. Lofton was here for a year. Sheffield was quiet during his time here. Wickman was gone after reports of his attitude surfaced.

Bj while he's sucked has not been a problem here whatsoever off the field or there's been no major reports of such.

Freeman ran his mouth off when he got DL'd and I think Fredi has played gim every game since. Justin has been quiet.

Heyward is a guy that has been levelheaded and mature since he was brought up.

Hudson is the only guy to talk smack about Fredi publicly but then again Huddy is like Chipper. Isn't really gonna sugar coat how he feels. Everyone made a huge deal about Kimbrel disrespecting Fredi and spun it as somehow being Fredi's fault instead of Kimbrel acting like a disrespectful child.
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Fredi dealing with Justice, Lofton, Sheffield, young Chipper and Andruw, plus the trifecta would be amusing.
 
BJ#1FAN said:
Everyone made a huge deal about Kimbrel disrespecting Fredi and spun it as somehow being Fredi's fault instead of Kimbrel acting like a disrespectful child.
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I wouldn't go quite that far but he was definitely acting immature, and should know better.
 
MrShwag said:
The guy's an idiot. Every pre-game interview I hear, he stumbles over his words and ends up saying the same 5 sentences.
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That's exactly what he should do. List a few cliches and empty platitudes together and move on, in short, be boring. His job is to coach, not be a tv personality. If he's good enough at being boring, maybe they'll leave him alone and let him do his job.
 
BJ#1FAN said:
It's funny because Fredi does about 90% of the same things Bobby did.

His press interviews could be verbatim Bobby speak when a player under performs and it's like he was watching another game. Bobby gets credit for that player loyalty but Fredi gets called a moron and idiot for saying the same things like "BJ is my guy". And if it turns out that Frank was indeed forcing Fredi to play BJ often then that's even more remarkable that Fredi took the hit for Frank and BJ.

It's also telling that most of the worst stuff in the clubhouse has stayed in the clubhouse even in the social media age. With guys like BJ and CJ you'd think we'd have worst stuff leaking frequently about clubhouse fighting.

I don't understand why people rail on Fredi for not ejecting himself out of games like Bobby uses to do. He's not that fiery. Maybe when he gets older he'll get a bit more grumpy but he's always seemed cool headed. I don't see any reason why he should go get himself thrown out just because a player argues with a call. With the way umpires are so quick to give the hook over small things and Fredi not having the reputation Bobby had the ejection effect might be overstated.

Another thing which I've mentioned before is this group of players are from a different generation in cultural society than Bobby had to deal with in the 90s. The self entitlement in some of today's players is more absurd than what Bobby had to deal with before. The economics of the game have changed player egos as well and has shifted their influence in the way clubhouses are run. Bj's case is a prime example of this. Because of the money invested in him Fredi lost control over it and upstairs gave orders.
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So obvious.
 
Braves1976 said:
:facepalm:
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I'm speaking in hyperbole obviously, but if you want to go back to the actual Mets GDT, the Anti-Fredi brigade were spinning it as "wow look at this, even his own closer doesn't respect him enough to not show him up on the field" as if it was Fredi's fault for Kimbrel acting like that. Some even pinned it on Fredi being unable to control the clubhouse to have people continuously disrespecting him. I'm sure because Kimbrel is such a competitive guy that he refused to give it up, but I don't ever recall Smoltz doing that to Bobby before. And then Fredi's comments about the situation after were about as pro and Bobby-speak as you could get. Didn't once blame Craig for it, even defending Craig's actions. Oh yeah we won that game by the way, Kimbrel did not have it at all that night. Lucky Fredi pulled him out.

Fredi has also talked to guys on the mound and given them second chances to get out of the inning as well.
 
bravesnumberone said:
The difference is Bobby actually cracked some people's asses.
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Besides Andruw, whom else did Bobby crack? Not saying he didn't, but refresh my memory as Andruw is the case everyone brings up for not hustling. But when he did that, Andruw was still living in Bobby's house and had not signed a multi-million dollar contract yet.

Considering we don't know all the details about Fredi's usage with BJ, and it looks more like Wren was pressuring Fredi to play BJ more and more to try and get his investment out of a slump, I think it's safe to assume that Wren was already feeling the heat by those above him, which made him pressure Fredi to try and get something out of BJ.
 
BJ#1FAN said:
Besides Andruw, whom else did Bobby crack? Not saying he didn't, but refresh my memory as Andruw is the case everyone brings up for not hustling. But when he did that, Andruw was still living in Bobby's house and had not signed a multi-million dollar contract yet.

Considering we don't know all the details about Fredi's usage with BJ, and it looks more like Wren was pressuring Fredi to play BJ more and more to try and get his investment out of a slump, I think it's safe to assume that Wren was already feeling the heat by those above him, which made him pressure Fredi to try and get something out of BJ.
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I know he wasn't crazy about Yunel. Can't remember if he ever did something out in public about it. But I seem to recall an interview with someone connected with the Braves that said Bobby went off on folks behind the scenes if they weren't hustling. That he wasn't as laid back as he appeared, particularly in his early managing days.

Maybe Fredi is that way, too, but it doesn't appear that way. I didn't see a whole lot of guys busting it this year. I think the blame lies all around.

Also, has anyone actually said this whole Fredi being pressured to play BJ thing was a matter of life and death for Fredi's job? We had/still have a ton of money tied up with Uggla. Didn't stop us from cutting him. Just seems inconsistent.
 
Gary82 said:
Fredi dealing with Justice, Lofton, Sheffield, young Chipper and Andruw, plus the trifecta would be amusing.
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BJ Upton would likely be worse than all of those guys than Sheffield.

After Los Angeles though Sheffield was relatively quiet the rest of his career with NYY and DET. Maybe had to do with the post-BALCO scandal and the rubbing cream accusations with Bonds?

Justice was still putting up numbers, so I doubt Bobby cared as long as he was putting up.

And a young Chipper, Andruw, and Justice are guys that were young and came up through the system. BJ came here after he knew he was going to be the highest paid player on the team. You don't think that gives the guy somewhat of an ego in the clubhouse even if he sucks like balls? Still getting the most money per year on the team atm before Freddie's deal kicks in.

And Bobby Cox is a Hall of Fame manager for a reason. Managed personalities well like Torre. I remember Wickman saying nothing but positive things about Bobby when he came here. When he left the sour grapes really spilled out. Cox did look like your grandfather you don't want to disappoint with the huge glasses and fatherly presence. Fredi is like your uncle that let's you get away with stuff and looks the other way, that you feel bad sometimes when you let him down but a lot of times you don't care.
 
bravesnumberone said:
I know he wasn't crazy about Yunel. Can't remember if he ever did something out in public about it. But I seem to recall an interview with someone connected with the Braves that said Bobby went off on folks behind the scenes if they weren't hustling. That he wasn't as laid back as he appeared, particularly in his early managing days.

Maybe Fredi is that way, too, but it doesn't appear that way. I didn't see a whole lot of guys busting it this year. I think the blame lies all around.

Also, has anyone actually said this whole Fredi being pressured to play BJ thing was a matter of life and death for Fredi's job? We had/still have a ton of money tied up with Uggla. Didn't stop us from cutting him. Just seems inconsistent.
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Let's be honest here, not everybody hustled all the time under Bobby too. In fact, many times you'd hear Bobby yell "EASY!" right out of the batter's box, and that wasn't just for injured players. While I don't think Fredi is going to cuss and throw up a tirade like Bobby would behind the scenes about hustling, I don't think he ignored that either and tried to address it somehow. I also think that some guys would not react very well in this day and age to their manager yelling at them.

Uggla and BJ while similar were two different scenarios. We had a serviceable replacement waiting in LaStella, while we had Schafer or Constanza to replace BJ (or Gattis back to left but doubt the management wanted to try that route again). And Uggla is clearly out of his prime in his mid 30's, while BJ still has a few years left on his deal and just hit 30.

I think the BJ thing was a matter of life or death for Frank's job, which from what we know he was on the verge of firing Fredi until JS-Hart-Cox intervened. So it sounds more like Wren was feeling the heat all year and was trying to get us to the playoffs at least to try and keep his job another year.
 
BJ#1FAN said:
Let's be honest here, not everybody hustled all the time under Bobby too. In fact, many times you'd hear Bobby yell "EASY!" right out of the batter's box, and that wasn't just for injured players. While I don't think Fredi is going to cuss and throw up a tirade like Bobby would behind the scenes about hustling, I don't think he ignored that either and tried to address it somehow. I also think that some guys would not react very well in this day and age to their manager yelling at them.

Uggla and BJ while similar were two different scenarios. We had a serviceable replacement waiting in LaStella, while we had Schafer or Constanza to replace BJ (or Gattis back to left but doubt the management wanted to try that route again). And Uggla is clearly out of his prime in his mid 30's, while BJ still has a few years left on his deal and just hit 30.

I think the BJ thing was a matter of life or death for Frank's job, which from what we know he was on the verge of firing Fredi until JS-Hart-Cox intervened. So it sounds more like Wren was feeling the heat all year and was trying to get us to the playoffs at least to try and keep his job another year.
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Obviously you don't have to run for it all on every ground ball, but I'm talking about obvious dogging like BJ. In regard to BJ/Uggla, you're right, but there were several options we could have tried with BJ. Not Schafer, but Bonifacio was fine, and I would have rather suffered through Gattis in LF, even though moving Heyward to CF and Justin to RF would have weakened us. It's still better than batting a worthless player, especially at the top of the order. Hell, I would have even stuck Gosselin out there. Or Terd.

Still not crazy about Wren essentially being scapegoated by the brain trust. I can't defend a decision to keep him, but he was not the only problem here. If Hart's going to be the full-time guy, he better do some serious work this offseason, or he needs to be held just as accountable if we find ourselves back here next year. I also hope they've let Fredi know another losing season with this much young talent can't be tolerated again, barring a string of injuries.

Of course, they tolerated it this season, so who knows.
 
He's here to stay, so not much point in arguing about it now, but it has already been confirmed that the clubhouse has been a mess for well over a year. So, those of us pointing that fact out were right.
 
Dalyn said:
He's here to stay, so not much point in arguing about it now, but it has already been confirmed that the clubhouse has been a mess for well over a year. So, those of us pointing that fact out were right.
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If a manager loses a team, it's extremely difficult to get that back.

Putting Fredi aside for a minute, one of two things are going to have to happen between now and April.

1. We're going to have to shake up the roster with some new blood.
2. Some of these guys need to grow the hell up.

Maybe both.
 
Dalyn said:
He's here to stay, so not much point in arguing about it now, but it has already been confirmed that the clubhouse has been a mess for well over a year. So, those of us pointing that fact out were right.
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Well when Laird is the de facto clubhouse leader just because he's the oldest tenured veteran on the team, you're probably going to have some issues.
 
bravesnumberone said:
If a manager loses a team, it's extremely difficult to get that back.

Putting Fredi aside for a minute, one of two things are going to have to happen between now and April.

1. We're going to have to shake up the roster with some new blood.
2. Some of these guys need to grow the hell up.

Maybe both.
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This is one of the reasons I think Hart-JS-Cox are giving Fredi another chance. We're still in by and large part a very young team with signs of immaturity. I've said before that Heyward is the only guy like that looks like a professional out there at times. The worst attitude I've seen from J-Hey is throw his helmet on the ground in disgust at a strike 3 call. He still hustles most of the time on balls in play, still gives up his body on defense, etc. Freddie can show some bad body language, as can Justin and BJ. Gattis looks the same no matter what 85% of the time, the other 15% of the time when he strikes out on a high fastball at the eyes he shouts profanity. CJ is LOL.

Simmons is clueless at times, but Simmons is a student of the game. I think he'll come around offensively and cut down on his swing and the double plays. I actually also think he's going to learn how to walk as well.
 
The attitude/approach adjustments need to happen now and next year. There's no guarantee we'll have Heyward much longer. Freddie might be young, but he'll be entering his fifth season, so he needs to start being a big boy.

If Justin can somehow avoid his typical month-long slumps, he's going to be a serious MVP contender. But when it gets down to crunch time, we've got to have him step up and not disappear like he (and most of the rest of the team) did in September. I have some hope for Simmons to keep his damn feet firm consistently, but it's going to take some serious work with a good hitting coach.
 
Since wren got the Axe there has been a lot of mudslinging in his direction about how all of this was mainly his fault...I wonder if there is any truth or if it is Bobby js and hart sticking up for their boy
 
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