GDT: 11/3/20, Election Day, Donald J. Trump vs. Joseph R. Biden

[acesfull86]

“We need to look infinitely harder at who we elect to any office in our land — at the office seeker’s character, at their morals, at their ethical record, their integrity, their honesty, their flaws, what they have said about women, and minorities, why they are seeking office in the first place, and only then consider the policies they espouse.”

-----John Kelly

Enter...Joe Biden!?

 

[nsacpi]

Enter...Joe Biden!?

GOP in 2016 had this enormous field. Every single one (even Cruz) was a better human being and more psychologically stable than the guy they settled on.

I think a good deal of this warm fuzzy image that has enveloped credibly accused creepy joe is propaganda.

But he ain't an outlier six sigma out into the tail of the distribution like very poorly chosen one. We have not had many psychopaths as president. I'm happy to take anyone within plus or minus two sigma on the well-adjusted well-integrated personality spectrum. After all anyone running for the White House is going to be out there in the tail. But six sigma out is a little too far.

 

[nsacpi]

I don't think so Mick.

 

[acesfull86]

Avoiding psychopaths should be the minimum standard, but everything Kelly asks for there is wishful thinking...politicians were generally sleazeballs before and they’re all going to be handed a blank check in the wake of Trump.

 

[striker42]

The police response was weird. I don't buy the race baiting that's going on about it. Writing it off based on race is too trite. I also don't believe the conspiracy theories. One thing I live by is to never ascribe nefarious intent to something incompetence will explain.

I've been to DC several times and the Capitol police aren't generally ones to treat anyone with kid gloves. How it went down was definitely strange.

 

[nsacpi]

plus or minus two sigma will allow everyone's favorite sleazeball to be given consideration

my point really is that very poorly chosen one is well outside that range

 

[nsacpi]

The police response was weird. I don't buy the race baiting that's going on about it. Writing it off based on race is too trite. I also don't believe the conspiracy theories. One thing I live by is to never ascribe nefarious intent to something incompetence will explain.

I've been to DC several times and the Capitol police aren't generally ones to treat anyone with kid gloves. How it went down was definitely strange.

The initial breach came through a side entrance that no one was guarding. A door and some windows were breached. In military terms security was outflanked and overwhelmed. It's like a country building a wall to protect against invasions from the north being surprised by barbarians coming from the south. A small weakness no one thought about did them in. That's my preliminary take. But there may be more.

Once they were outflanked and outnumbered the choices available were not very good. They probably chose the least bad one.

 

[sturg33]

I can easily believe having lax security to justify what is coming next. Can't wait for PATRIOT ACT2.0

"This can never be allowed to happen again"

AWOMEN!

 

[acesfull86]

plus or minus two sigma will allow everyone's favorite sleazeball to be given consideration

my point really is that very poorly chosen one is well outside that range

I don’t disagree. He was never fit for the office, which is why I never considered giving him my vote.

I just worry that instead of looking at “the office seeker’s character, at their morals, at their ethical record, their integrity, their honesty, ...” our post-Trump average is actually going to be much worse than our pre-Trump average.

 

[sturg33]

I don’t disagree. He was never fit for the office, which is why I never considered giving him my vote.

I just worry that instead of looking at “the office seeker’s character, at their morals, at their ethical record, their integrity, their honesty, ...” our post-Trump average is actually going to be much worse than our pre-Trump average.

"He/she isn't as bad as trump!!"

 

[Carp]

The police response was weird. I don't buy the race baiting that's going on about it. Writing it off based on race is too trite. I also don't believe the conspiracy theories. One thing I live by is to never ascribe nefarious intent to something incompetence will explain.

I've been to DC several times and the Capitol police aren't generally ones to treat anyone with kid gloves. How it went down was definitely strange.

I assume it's because of 2 reasons.

1. Most of the cops are Trump supporters themselves.

2. They realize Trump supporters are probably more likely to be carrying a gun.

 

[Jaw]

setup?

I generally don't ascribe something to conspiracy that is more easily explained by hubris or incompetence. I'm not sure either of those fit here though. I think it's more likely that Bowser and the Capitol Police Board genuinely believed what a lot of the right wing commentators believed, that this kind of mob lawlessness was reserved for one side of the political spectrum. They've had no reason to believe otherwise for decades.

 

[nsacpi]

I don’t disagree. He was never fit for the office, which is why I never considered giving him my vote.

I just worry that instead of looking at “the office seeker’s character, at their morals, at their ethical record, their integrity, their honesty, ...” our post-Trump average is actually going to be much worse than our pre-Trump average.

I'm probably never gonna vote for a Republican. But I wouldn't worry about the country if someone like Pence, Cotton, Haley or Rubio is elected.

I think Cruz is out there in terms of being maladjusted and extremely cynical even by political standards. I'd worry some about him but nothing like I have been in the past four years with very poorly chosen one.

 

[striker42]

The "Democrat" Party ?

It is delusional and uninformed to think (D) is all and only about Trump.

He has been the President for 4 years, the head of the government, commander in chief ----- of course he takes a lot of air.

The "Democrat" Party.
The language of Rush Limbaugh , Roger Stone, Roy Cohn and of course, Joseph McCarthy
Sean Hannity and probably the rest

I was typing that on my phone and the predictive text brought up "Democrat" instead of "Democratic". I really don't care which term is used.

It's as delusional and informed to think Republicans are all about Trump as it is to think Democrats are. The situation is much more nuanced than that. However, it's hard to deny he was the central figure that American politics on both sides of the aisle orbited around.

With Democrats, Trump provided them an enemy to rally against. No matter their internal disagreements they had opposition to Trump to unite them. Can the far left wing of the party and the establishment wing agree on a path forward? Divisions within the party tend to disappear when there's a president of the other party in office. When the onus of leadership is back on a party, that party's divisions become more pronounced.

 

[Carp]

Social media has pretty much ended all hopes of finding candidates that completely moral and ethic. Everyone has stuff they are ashamed of and social media makes sure most of that information never gets swept away. And it also helps facilitate cancel culture for pretty much anyone that is remotely famous.

 

[Carp]

"He/she isn't as bad as trump!!"

It would legit be hard to be as bad of a candidate as Trump, at least morally and ethically. A man that never once tried to hide the fact that he is both racist and sexist even before he was voted in as POTUS. A man that had dozens of lawsuits against him for unethical behavior.

 

[acesfull86]

It would legit be hard to be as bad of a candidate as Trump, at least morally and ethically. A man that never once tried to hide the fact that he is both racist and sexist even before he was voted in as POTUS. A man that had dozens of lawsuits against him for unethical behavior.

Agreed.

So now the question is do we box ourselves into comparing every future politician and their actions against the Trump standard or not?

 

[nsacpi]

I was typing that on my phone and the predictive text brought up "Democrat" instead of "Democratic". I really don't care which term is used.

It's as delusional and informed to think Republicans are all about Trump as it is to think Democrats are. The situation is much more nuanced than that. However, it's hard to deny he was the central figure that American politics on both sides of the aisle orbited around.

With Democrats, Trump provided them an enemy to rally against. No matter their internal disagreements they had opposition to Trump to unite them. Can the far left wing of the party and the establishment wing agree on a path forward? Divisions within the party tend to disappear when there's a president of the other party in office. When the onus of leadership is back on a party, that party's divisions become more pronounced.

Common enemy is a great thing, you're right about that. I think we underestimate how much of what has happened in this country the last three decades is related to the end of the Cold War. In ways both good and bad the Cold War stabilized our politics. We don't have that stabilizing anchor anymore.

 

[nsacpi]

It would legit be hard to be as bad of a candidate as Trump, at least morally and ethically. A man that never once tried to hide the fact that he is both racist and sexist even before he was voted in as POTUS. A man that had dozens of lawsuits against him for unethical behavior.

I agree. He was an aberration. A highly dangerous one, but we are about to see him through. It will actually not be possible for anyone to nominate as bad a candidate, even if their goal was to find one just like him.

 

[Jaw]

I'm probably never gonna vote for a Republican. But I wouldn't worry about the country if someone like Pence, Cotton, Haley or Rubio is elected.

I think Cruz is out there in terms of being maladjusted and extremely cynical even by political standards. I'd worry some about him but nothing like I have been in the past four years with very poorly chosen one.

Serious question. Hypothetically we're five years in the future and Democrats have nuked the filibuster, pulled an FDR court packing, added states, abolished the Electoral College, mandated questionable voting practices like universal mail in, third party canvassing, ban Voter ID, etc.,

Will you feel that they've protected the country from the undermining of democracy?
If so, will you feel the same way about all of the moderates who will have enabled it as you do the Grahams and McConnells?