GDT 6/13/19: Keep the steak alive

Southcack77 said:
I honestly do not see the Braves pitching results as disappointing.

the bulk of the acquisitions have either been solid contributors at the major league level at young ages or have yet to get their shot.

They've won two divisions now largely with internal pitching.

I think expectations are a little out of whack with reality there.
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Fair enough, and still too early to say won two divisions in a row.

But still needing another SP despite all the resources they've put into them is i guess whatever but what can you do. There's been rebuilds that have gone much worse than the Braves, so it is what it is.
 
Southcack77 said:
I honestly do not see the Braves pitching results as disappointing.

the bulk of the acquisitions have either been solid contributors at the major league level at young ages or have yet to get their shot.

They've won two divisions now largely with internal pitching.

I think expectations are a little out of whack with reality there.
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I think the jury is still out. It would be nice to hit on one other starting pitcher. Doesn't have to be quite the caliber of Soroka.

It is worth keeping in mind however that this year's rotation has included players that pre-date the rebuild (Teheran) and post-rebuild acquisitions (Keuchel, Gausman). So we are not "winning the division" with a rotation that is mostly from the rebuild. Last year there was Anibal.
 
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Heyward said:
I was just throwing in the pitchers that have been dissapointing and will what likely result AA in having to go get a starter at the deadline.

But yes, they're still young.
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I don't know why the expectation would be that the Braves would have completely turned over their entire pitching organization within four years and be able to completely staff a championship rotation internally with 23 years olds.

Fact remains they are on track to win their second consecutive division title without having incurred the cost of a significant prospect, draft pick, or long term free agent deal for pitching. I'm not sure what else you really could have rationally expected.
 
nsacpi said:
I think the jury is still out. It would be nice to hit on one other starting pitcher. Doesn't have to be quite the caliber of Soroka.

It is worth keeping in mind however that this year's rotation has included players that pre-date the rebuild (Teheran) and post-rebuild acquisitions (Keuchel, Gausman). So we are not "winning the division" with a rotation that is mostly from the rebuild. Last year there was Anibal.
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See my next post. It's ridiculous that anyone would expect that a pitching staff would all be internal. They've spent very few resources on external pitching.

the Braves began from a place where they had literally zero MLB caliber starting pitching prospects. It's very cool that Soroka has flown through the system and is producing the way he has, but expecting everyone to be like that is super silly.
 
i'll reiterate that giving Wren credit for Acuña and Albies is hilarious and says a lot about the rest of his drafting and development which was awful.
also credit for Freeman...lulz always. happened to be coming up on his years and gave him a market rate extension...genius GM-ing.

in reality Wren had basically nothing to do with the 2 lottery ticket winners signed at 16. he didn't identify Freeman. the things he was majorly responsible for - drafting and signing FAs - he was extremely terrible at. shame he couldn't have used money better, because the teams he was given had potential if he added good pieces around them.
 
Southcack77 said:
See my next post. It's ridiculous that anyone would expect that a pitching staff would all be internal. They've spent very few resources on external pitching.

the Braves began from a place where they had literally zero MLB caliber starting pitching prospects. It's very cool that Soroka has flown through the system and is producing the way he has, but expecting everyone to be like that is super silly.
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Then why did we stockpile so much pitching during 3-headed John days?
 
"they traded guys who will be career minor leaguers for Gausman...checkmate!" lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
 
Super said:
i'll reiterate that giving Wren credit for Acuña and Albies is hilarious and says a lot about the rest of his drafting and development which was awful.
also credit for Freeman...lulz always. happened to be coming up on his years and gave him a market rate extension...genius GM-ing.

in reality Wren had basically nothing to do with the 2 lottery ticket winners signed at 16. he didn't identify Freeman. the things he was majorly responsible for - drafting and signing FAs - he was extremely terrible at. shame he couldn't have used money better, because the teams he was given had potential if he added good pieces around them.
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The man in charge is always responsible and deserves credit for the good and bad. If that wasn't the case then MLB wouldn't have banned Coppy.
 
Southcack77 said:
I honestly do not see the Braves pitching results as disappointing.

the bulk of the acquisitions have either been solid contributors at the major league level at young ages or have yet to get their shot.

They've won two divisions now largely with internal pitching.

I think expectations are a little out of whack with reality there.
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What? The bulk of the Braves production has come from their position players.
 
Individual-1 said:
Then why did we stockpile so much pitching during 3-headed John days?
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Their stated goal was to produce enough pitching talent internally to contend for championships without having to blow their payroll in free agency or mortgage the future of the franchise in trades.

I'd say they have done that. And track to continue to be able to do that.

I think arguing over Coppy vs Wren vs John S by proxy is sort of tedious and silly, but I sure don't understand how you look at the org in 2014 and 2019 and conclude that the rebuild went poorly.

It amounts to criticizing it for not going perfectly. Ok fine, but the organization is pretty clearly in a really good place and it's also pretty clearly not in significant part due to anything that Anthopolous has done.

If you want to use the crutch of "the Braves got lucky that their sub-optimal decisions worked out" that makes more sense to me than claiming that the Braves don't have pretty good pitching situation going on.
 
msstate7 said:
How much was from holding on to freeman and trading for Swanson/ender?
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I find it a little ironic that people that were screaming about the Braves not having enough position players cite the Braves having lots of position players as vindication that they were right all along.

The bottom line is that the goal isn't producing one or the other. It's about producing both in a balance that allows you to win. the Braves rebuild clearly did do that. If you feel like you have to argue the contrary position, you're just blindly partisan to whatever little pet thing you got going on inside your noggin.

I was prepared to call the thing a failure if it turned out to be a failure. It's definitely not a failure. It's definitely a success.
 
We could have the Faillies rebuild instead. I would say regardless of who we bow down too, we still have it better than a lot of rebuilding/rebuilt clubs.
 
thewupk said:
The man in charge is always responsible and deserves credit for the good and bad. If that wasn't the case then MLB wouldn't have banned Coppy.
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Coppy was the man at the top so technically responsible.
Wren likely did next to nothing regarding Acuña and Albies. you know that's true, but desperately need to give him credit for something, because the rest is so bleak.
even if he did somehow play a large role in acquiring them, they were both total blind dart throws. it's not like he had some special insight or saw the true talent.
 
thewupk said:
Swanson/Ender provided 4.7 fWAR last year. Wren signed Freeman to that team friendly deal so you can thank him for being here.
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lmaooooooooo
seriously, the things Wren is given credit for says it all.
terrible FA signings, terrible drafts, but two dart-throw, small dollar INTFA signings and signing Freeman to a market-rate deal. big time foresight and genius by Frank Wren.

Wren happened to be the Braves GM when Freeman was due for a deal. huge kudos to him for his impeccable timing.
 
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Super said:
lmaooooooooo
seriously, the things Wren is given credit for says it all.
terrible FA signings, terrible drafts, but two dart-throw, small dollar INTFA signings and signing Freeman to a market-rate deal. big time foresight and genius by Frank Wren.

Wren happened to be the Braves GM when Freeman was due for a deal. huge kudos to him for his impeccable timing.
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Wren was terrible and people on here think he did more than Coppy lol. Unreal to say the least. The credit he gets is blasphemy.
 
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