GDT 8/8 BRAVES vs. BREWERS
- Thread starter zbhargrove
- Start date
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
ok.. enough of this junk.. need to get back to playing the Braves way.
So that's a no. Got it.
I'll go with the bet. I predict we will see him for at least a few more starts before making a decision on his future.
I believe that is what we are all saying, except for one of us.
Or you can realize that 99% of 25 year old pitchers that live at 88-90 don't stick at the MLB level.
But by all means, keep being noncommittal.
msstate7
Well-known member
Wasn't the guy Whalen faced tonight sort of the same scouting report? Davies has a WAR of 1.7 on the year.
Whalen has pitched 11 innings so far and struck out 12. Will he continue that? Probably not, but don't you think we should at least see if he can? I'm really not sure what you're saying... Should we dfa him?
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Well he's 22 so there's that... And is that a real statistic or one you just pulled out of your arse?
Directly from my ass. But find a current RHed starter in his mid-20s that lives at 88-90 and has had success for 3 seasons and I'll go find 99 that haven't.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
JT?
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
You have become a world class d*ck.
Are you trying to say Julio Teheran has been successful for 3 years with a fastball velocity of 88-90 MPH? Is that a serious response?
Since when has he ever been sub-90? Best example I can come up with just with a quick looksee is Medlen in 2013, his FB averaged 89.4 that year.
Yes, there are pitchers that succeed for a short while despite underwhelming stuff. That's why I said "sustained success" and mentioned 3 years. When Medlen was going good I cautioned that the moment he lost even a tick off his stuff his command and "knowing how to pitch" would no longer be enough to make up for it. I was brow beaten endlessly then too by the same brain trust that is harping on me now.
I was a huge proponent of selling high on Medlen. That didn't happen and the Braves extracted almost zero value from him after his one good season. Same with JJ. I hope the Braves will have learned their lesson when it comes time to cash in Teheran in 2-3 years.
Hell, just last year there were folks on this board saying Williams Freaking Perez was a legit option for the 3/4 slot in the rotation because he "just knew how to pitch", and "just gets hitters out". Again, I was lambasted then for saying Perez should not figure into the plans of a contending team. They were wrong then, they are wrong now, yet they still say the same things about all AAAA pitchers that enjoy a hit of early success.
You give yourself too much credit. You are not the resident punching bag on this board.
Perez should be given a chance to be a 4 or 5.
You've also been really grumpy the last few months. Strange.
Well to be fair those were both cases of injuries causing velocity loss and then lack of effectiveness, it wasn't like there were warning signs with sudden velocity loss before that. Both Medlen and Jair were 91ish before injury. And Medlen had come back strong for 2 solid years (2012 and 2013) before the second TJ. But I'd agree in general on low velocity, average K pitch to contact guys being good sell high guys in general.
Thinking Perez would ever be anything other than a back of the rotation guy is obviously kinda crazy, but Whalen actually has solid secondary stuff when he's showing good control. He could make an okay 4th starter type if everything works out based on that. That's most likely his peak upside, but there is some upside there.
Though if Doug Fister can hang around as a decent starter for as long as he can with similar velocity anything is possible. Not a high chance of happening, but it's there.
Both JJ and Medlen help prove my stance on selling high on pitchers. Those guys carried double risk; they had fringe stuff (though still better than Whalen's), and they were inherently risky just by being pitchers. Just because injury derailed their careers before a natural decline in stuff means nothing...the Braves still should have sold high on both.
Same with Hanson, though everyone knew he was a ticking time bomb and he blew out before they could realistically sell high on him.
I still contend the Braves will be terrible if Whalen is in the rotation long term, and they need to sell Teheran in 2-3 years. Further, they need to sell every single pitcher before he turns 30 and/or has 1-2 years of control remaining. The only exception should be a guy coming off injury that needs to rebuild value and therefore will potentially bring back more than the draft pick compensation he might otherwise earn the Braves.
4maddux_cy's
Spring Training Invitee
So you are saying Maddux was considered a hard thrower?! I was well in my prime of baseball watching during his peak and he was in no way considered shard thrower but a guy that hit his spots and crafted his way trough lineups.
Also, just because guys who throw with less velocity has a smaller margin for error it doesn't mean that they cannot be successful. Jaime Moyer is another guy that would agree.
I guess reading comprehension isn't really your thing. I didn't say he was a hard thrower. I said he threw harder than Whalen does now.
Maddux threw significantly harder (90-94) than Whalen is throwing now, and that was much more impressive 20 years ago. You should have paid more attention during your baseball watching peak. Maddux also had an elite change up, an above average breaking ball, played the best defense on the mound of his generation, and had the best control in the history of the game. Does Whalen posses those traits too? Again, you obviously weren't paying attention.
And your other counter point is Jamie Moyer? That doesn't even warrant a response other than to say that if a career 4.5 FIP is your definition of a "good" pitcher, then you win the argument. Whalen can probably be a 4.5 FIP guy for several years. Oh joy.