GDT 8/8 BRAVES vs. BREWERS
- Thread starter zbhargrove
- Start date
Southcack77
Well-known member
Hendricks and Roark are in the same general range as well and in the top 11 of NL ERA.
It happens a fair amount and there are more than a few guys with that kind of stuff who are successful. Used to happen a lot more, but pitchers seem to be trading TJ surgery for velocity these days.
Plenty of guys who used to throw in the mid 90s have remained successful once they ended up in Whalen's range. I try not to compare prospects to hall of famers, but it happens on occasion.
Sure, you aren't the guy is better than the stuff until you prove it, but you typically do get an opportunity to do that when you've performed like Whalen did and there is an opening.
FG has him at 90.1, which is around where he's been his entire career. Trying to use .1 speed as an example is kinda disingenuous anyway. If you want a perfect example just use Doug Fister, dude has been around 88 or less for most of his entire career and has a career 3.43 ERA.
But no matter what example you use Enscheff's basic point is correct (even though he's being all crusty about it), it's extremely difficult to be successful long term with a sub 90 fastball, and the guys who do achieve success are typically only 4th/5th starter types at best (and the few who do manage to be more than that have truly elite groundball rates). Perhaps Whalen can buck the trend and be another Fister type, but the odds are stacked against him with poor fastball velocity. Time will tell if he can overcome it.
Hendricks is a good example, Roark has an average of 92 for his fastball though, not a good comp really. Whalen will have to get his groundball % up a bit to have a chance to get that kinda success, Hendricks is an elite groundball guy.
Southcack77
Well-known member
That is fair, I was using Whalen's top fastball rather than average which is not apples.
I think we'll just have to where he settles in.
Rick Reed is another comp that comes to mind.
there used to be more guys like this before everyone started trading TJ for velocity.
Yeah, true that, but it's not the 80s or early/mid 90s anymore on multiple levels, strikezones are a bit different now too along with the differences in player workout regimens and pitcher analysis. It's an entirely different ballgame in that regard, much harder to get away with a marginal fastball. Guys like Scott Erickson that were a lynchpin for the Twins in 91 would have a hard time making it today I think.
KB21
Where's My Cup of Coffee?
Pitching to the radar gun is one of the big reasons there are so many UCL injuries. It's really a combination of a lot of things:
1. Pitching to the radar gun , that ultimately causes a pitcher to overthrow. I don't think many truly understand the biomechanical force that is applied to the arm, especially at the elbow, when you are throwing from the mound.
2. Too much competitive pitching at a young age. I think this is the biggest factor. The damage is being done at a young age. I can't tell you how many 14-15 year old players come through my clinic with either elbow or shoulder pain in their pitching arm.
3. Pitchers trying to throw breaking pitches and change of pace pitches at a young age. When you are 11 years old, your growth plates are still open. The attachment of the UCL is right around where the growth plate is in the elbow. Little leaguer's elbow is an apophysitis of the elbow, which means the growth plate is inflamed. This can lead to TJS down the road. Many youth coaches do not teach the proper way to throw a breaking pitch, particularly a curve ball, anyway.