GDT: Braves @ Reds 4/26 (No Camargo)

nsacpi said:
would that include the people on the international side....the results even with cheating were not good
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Tone at the top - They knew what was going on and encouraged it. More likely than not the ones that createe it.
 
Super said:
yes he did. poor drafts over and over. poor FA signings. poor contract extensions.
all hampered the franchise.
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It's easy to look at Uggla and CJ and say his extensions were horrible. I think the Freeman, Simmons, JT, and Kimbrel ones more than make up for it.
 
mfree80 said:
I think this thread could keep going around in circles forever, so let me try to sum it up...

Wren made some really good moves, but also made some major screw ups that eventually hurt the team and caught up to him and cost his his job.

HartCoppy made some really good moves, but also made some pretty big screw ups that eventually hurt the team, and caught up to them. It was the cheating that finally cost them their jobs.

Hindsight is a great teacher for both.

AA is inheriting a great situation, based on the work of both of those past leadership groups, despite having to clean up some messes left by both groups. The more recent ones left by HartCoppy are by far the most apparent and crippling, but mainly because they are the most recent. Most of Wrens have already run their course or been cleaned up, at significant cost by HartCoppy.

The rebuild would not be where it is today without the work of both groups, and both groups made major mistakes that have kept it from being in an even better situation.
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Neither one was ultimately a particularly good GM for the Braves and should not be missed or defended. But together they may have left enough for the organization to return to reasonably successful baseball.
 
thewupk said:
The team won under Wren. The team got caught cheating and embarrassed under Coppy. Those are facts.
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Kudo's.... You are really good at finding the facts that support your narrative and ignoring all the rest. (Did I see you admit to having trolling tendencies earlier in this thread?)
 
Super said:
the team won under wren with mostly players he didn't draft or acquire. facts.
those really good players were built around so poorly that we never had an actual shot at a WS.
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And they never actually won a playoff series and missed the playoffs a whole bunch.
 
thewupk said:
Wren gave us a 5 year window of contention where the team was really good but some people choose to forget that. Yeah I am sure he wanted to go for it another year, I did too. After that, yeah he would have started a rebuild. That's par the course for mid market teams if they are lucky. They get their window and then have to rebuild. People thinking this Braves team will ever experience what happened in the 90's again of continuous contention is deluding themselves. We are like everybody else if we are lucky. You get a window to contend and then you rebuild.
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also we had amazingly bad luck w pitchers getting hurt and not reaching potential--Beachey, Hansen, Minor, Medlen, Jurrjens
 
Southcack77 said:
And they never actually won a playoff series and missed the playoffs a whole bunch.
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didn't bring that up because series can be crapshoots. however i don't think ours were. i think beforehand we never really had a shot, due to lack of pitching and depth. like i mentioned that dodgers series. did anyone actually think we'd win that? it was lost before it started IMO.
 
Super said:
didn't bring that up because series can be crapshoots. however i don't think ours were. i think beforehand we never really had a shot, due to lack of pitching and depth. like i mentioned that dodgers series. did anyone actually think we'd win that? it was lost before it started IMO.
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use Kimbrel for a two inning save and it comes down to Minor versus Greinke in game 5...not so obvious we had no shot
 
mfree80 said:
Kudo's.... You are really good at finding the facts that support your narrative and ignoring all the rest. (Did I see you admit to having trolling tendencies earlier in this thread?)
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When it's in regards to Wren and how much it upsets thethe? Yeah I have trolling tendencies there. I never thought he was treated particularly fairly when he was dismissed. And the next group which was praised beyond belief imo is 10 times worse.
 
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