Hart: No Heyward, Cespedes, Upton

Horsehide Harry said:
Maybe something big like:

Maybin to the Indians for Bourn, Swisher, Frasier, Naquin, Mejia

The Indians dump $30M in bad contracts, pick up a short term viable bat in Maybin but give up a couple of excess OF and a project catcher with potential.

Braves get a couple of warm bodies that might rebound and be flippable at the 2016 deadline in Bourn and Swisher. If they do nothing, then you have essentially bought 2 OF and a catching prospect for $30M and the loss of Maybin.

Put Frazier in LF and Naquin in CF and have Mejia working his way through the system. The contracts come off the books after 2016 and the Braves are ready to add another major piece in advance of 2017.
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I was thinking of something like this as well taking on both Swisher/Bourn and getting Frazier and Naquin. Naquin should be able to start in 16 and Frazier by 17. The Indians would have Maybin, Brantley, and Zimmer all for about $16M. It could even go bigger and include Chris Johnson going back if we wanted to include more. Then we'd be only taking on $15M more for 2016 with Maybin and CJ's salary going back. For 2016 Swisher and Bourn are almost half their committed payroll. They're going to be looking to get rid of them somehow.
 
Chico said:
I was thinking of something like this as well taking on both Swisher/Bourn and getting Frazier and Naquin. Naquin should be able to start in 16 and Frazier by 17. The Indians would have Maybin, Brantley, and Zimmer all for about $16M. It could even go bigger and include Chris Johnson going back if we wanted to include more. Then we'd be only taking on $15M more for 2016 with Maybin and CJ's salary going back. For 2016 Swisher and Bourn are almost half their committed payroll. They're going to be looking to get rid of them somehow.
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Certainly send CJ if you can. But, I was thinking that the Indians would need for it to be a bigger salary dump on their side to get their interest.

With their pitching, I don't see them being that interested in the high end starters market. However, I could see them jumping out with the cash saved for a chance at JUpton or Heyward. They have tons of CF in their system and Bradley is a fine young player without the desired power for LF. If they could rid themselves of Bourn and Swisher, add Maybin for CF short term and add JUpton for RF, they might be a contender in their division, assuming their pitching stays good.
 
Cespedes, Upton, Heyward, the dollars we think will be out of where we want to go
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he thinks?

we had 2 of these on our team just a few months ago and he "thinks" it will be too much

but hey, we can trade for old cuban players with young players

but God forbid we sign some players too to go along with the "rebuild" to compete

**** this ****
 
I'm down to sign Heyward, but to the people who are clamoring for power: why do you want him? Right now, he is not a power hitter, and hasn't been for years. Certainly possible he turns into one, but chances are he won't.

I would definitely sign him (not at $25MM...) but if your thoughts are we need more HRs (not necessarily mine), then I'm not sure why so many are so desperate for him.
 
goldfly said:
he thinks?

we had 2 of these on our team just a few months ago and he "thinks" it will be too much

but hey, we can trade for old cuban players with young players

but God forbid we sign some players too to go along with the "rebuild" to compete

**** this ****
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Olivera isn't getting paid $20 mil.
And yeah, right now it's impossible to know how much those guys will get. Maybe if the market comes down on them and they end up around $18MM, we'll be involved.
This is called getting outraged for the sake of doing so.

I am baffled by the people who, knowing what we know now, still would've wanted to hold onto Heyward and JUp.
 
yeezus said:
Olivera isn't getting paid $20 mil.

And yeah, right now it's impossible to know how much those guys will get. Maybe if the market comes down on them and they end up around $18MM, we'll be involved.

This is called getting outraged for the sake of doing so.

I am baffled by the people who, knowing what we know now, still would've wanted to hold onto Heyward and JUp.
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true but trading for a 30 year old player during a "rebuild" makes no sense if we aren't going to put other pieces with it

if we are going to say no to these players, who do you see after next year that we would say yes to that are going to be free agents?

I took 1st base and SS out for obvious reasons

The following players have contracts expiring or should have the six years of service necessary to become free agents after the 2016 season.

(* – player whose current contract includes 2017 option)

Second Basemen

Aaron Hill

Chase Utley

Neil Walker

Josh Wilson

Third Basemen

Adrian Beltre

Daniel Descalso

Martin Prado

Justin Turner

Luis Valbuena

Catchers

Drew Butera

Jason Castro

Francisco Cervelli

A.J. Ellis

Ryan Hanigan

Nick Hundley

Jonathan Lucroy

Salvador Perez *

Wilson Ramos

David Ross

Chris Stewart

Kurt Suzuki *

Josh Thole

Outfielders

Nori Aoki

Jose Bautista

Carlos Beltran

Gregor Blanco

Peter Bourjos

Michael Bourn *

Jay Bruce

Chris Coghlan

Coco Crisp *

Michael Cuddyer

David DeJesus

Sam Fuld

Craig Gentry

Carlos Gomez

Alex Gordon

Chris Heisey

Matt Holliday *

Jon Jay

John Mayberry

Cameron Maybin *

Nate McLouth

Logan Morrison

Angel Pagan

Josh Reddick

Alex Rios

Michael Saunders

Jordan Schafer

Seth Smith *

Travis Snider

Jose Tabata *

Mark Trumbo
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Heyward would be a better fit for this team if the Braves had other young, cheap power hitters in the fold. The way this team is currently structured, depending on Heyward to carry the offense and more importantly, paying him like that type of player, is likely not the best route to take. He's a great player for a team that already has some pop, where he can fit in and just do his thing.
 
I cannot recall the last team who "went big" in free agency and it actually worked out. We hear about them during the offseason and we all talk about how good they might be because they spent a lot of money and then later reality hits and they're looking to get out from under those contracts. We're not going to blow our wad like a fat kid in a candy store, just because we can.
 
Diesel said:
Heyward would be a better fit for this team if the Braves had other young, cheap power hitters in the fold. The way this team is currently structured, depending on Heyward to carry the offense and more importantly, paying him like that type of player, is likely not the best route to take. He's a great player for a team that already has some pop, where he can fit in and just do his thing.
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This is my thought as well. If he can be a #2 hitter and just be an all around role player like a Brett Gardner he will flourish. But only the big market teams can pay a role player that kind of money.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
He didn't say that they wouldn't spend money just that they wouldn't spend money on THEM.

I have said for a couple of months now that it is clear, at least to me, that Hart is looking to play on one or more of the TOR starters out there. I think he will trade from the current rotation to bring some bats. I just hope that he doesn't go for bats that are ML ready who are a) old b) not really that good c) expensive in terms of money and/or years.

I would much prefer a trade like the Brewers made where they brought back two near ready OF and some change.

It's clear that the Braves are banking on Olivera filling one hole. He is much more valuable if he plays 2B (assuming he can) but I think the Braves think of him as a 3B. Then, if you assume Simmons at short Jace at 2B, Freeman at 1B and (at least for now) Markakis at RF you have holes in CF, LF and C. CF you might be able to play Mallex Smith if he can lead off but that makes it harder to carry the relatively poor bats at short and 2B (one reason why Olivera at 2B is better). LF has no internal answer and must be acquired. Catcher is the same as LF since it is clear, at least to me, that CB is destined for an Eddie Perez career (if that).

The Ruiz belly flop is really hurting right now. Hopefully it is a nagging injury thing. Maybe he can go to AFL and regain his status as a viable 3B alternative which would allow Olivera to push Jace of 2B and allow the Braves to play Smith in CF which would then allow the Braves to package Maybin with a starter like Miller to try and bring back the answer at LF and/or catcher.
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Obviously we can go after other guys, but after those 3, who is going to come in and make a big difference without being a significant risk of regressing steeply soon?

If we're trying to put together a competitive team and are setting our sights lower than these guys in FA, I'm worried about what we might have to do in trades.
 
Chico said:
This is my thought as well. If he can be a #2 hitter and just be an all around role player like a Brett Gardner he will flourish. But only the big market teams can pay a role player that kind of money.
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Heyward is not a role player, I don't know why people think this. Of course, Gardner really isn't a role player, either.

Heyward is the best player on the best team in baseball.
 
goldfly said:
true but trading for a 30 year old player during a "rebuild" makes no sense if we aren't going to put other pieces with it

if we are going to say no to these players, who do you see after next year that we would say yes to that are going to be free agents?
I took 1st base and SS out for obvious reasons
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Well, I'd say trades are always a possibility.
And I think we'll be a pretty decent team next year (or, could be).
I'd certainly look into Gordon this offseason for LF. I think he's a good fit. Always depends on how high the bidding goes.
We need a LT catcher, but I'm not sure where we'll find one, I think they're pretty tough.
If we could somehow swing singing Gordon and Price (to anchor the staff) this off-season, I believe we'd be in good shape.
 
Agree with some earlier sentiments. Heyward is not currently a guy who will carry you (despite what his WAR says). He's certainly better than a role player, but I think the best players in the game can be depended on on offense, and he isn't that guy.

Grichuk's WAR extended to Jason's games is above Jason's, FWIW.

And we are not the Cardinals. They have an incredibly well-rounded team, pretty much top-to-bottom, and have funneled guys in from their minors like it's nothing. We are not there, and I don't think we can pay Heyward like he's a catalyst, because he isn't (right now).

Now, if we get him on a cheaper deal, betting that he will become one, I'd listen. Still plenty young.
 
I'm not sure why Olivera doesn't fit into the rebuild model. We want to be good in 3017. He will still be good for a few years after that probably.
 
thethe said:
I'm not sure why Olivera doesn't fit into the rebuild model. We want to be good in 3017. He will still be good for a few years after that probably.
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Yeah, true. I hear that Immortality pill is going on the market soon, and rumors are Hector is first on the list for it.
 
smootness said:
Heyward is not a role player, I don't know why people think this. Of course, Gardner really isn't a role player, either.

Heyward is the best player on the best team in baseball.
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Heyward is a solid contributor for a team that wins because their pitching has been the best in baseball, by a wide margin. For a team that needs offense, Heyward is not the ideal fit. Especially considering what his price will be.
 
Why are people rushing to get Jace out of here? Can we please see what type of plAyer he is going to be first?
 
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