How can anyone not believe in evolution?

Yeah, there's definitely a god up there somewhere who cares what you do. If anything, he's an asshole. I'm a good person. I help people out, I do things for other people. I work hard and take care of my business. But I'm going to hell because some raging, selfish, ego-maniacal god needed me to praise him more. Ok bro. I don't even wanna be friends, you're a dick.

I also love the whole "forgiveness" thing. "Ask god for forgiveness for your sins. Oh you did something wrong? It's ok, god forgives." How about you strive to do the right thing because you're a moral human, not because "god" wants you to? There's no one forgiving me for my sins except me. If I do something wrong, I have to live with it and make peace with it on my own. Talking to myself doesn't make it OK.
 
yeezus said:
You wouldn't be a christian is you weren't raised that way. You'd be Muslim if you were born in a lot of other countries. You wouldn't believe in god the way you do if it were brought to you at a reasonable age to determine your own beliefs. Most of the people that become religious later in life (at least that I know) are addicts in a X-step program. It happens, sometimes people are looking for something to get them through. But, for the most part, no one would rationally believe that unless it was drilled in to them at a young age.
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Again, such overstatements of utter confidence which you can't prove. Silliness. I can turn that whole claptrap back on you. But what good would it do? Sure folks can merely believe what they've been taught. Sure folks can believe as a coping mechanism. Doesn't mean they do and it doesn't mean that you are somehow immune.

And your understanding of "rationally" just flows from your own worldview.
 
yeezus said:
No, not really. Little forms of life are all over the place, microscopic forms. We came from them over billions of years. All life did. They don't just come from no where on an existing planet. This is like science 101. This is why creationism cannot be taught in public schools. It's detrimental to society.
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You are begging the question... 'This is like philosophy 101.' Just stop with the childish retorts.
 
BedellBrave said:
Again, such overstatements of utter confidence which you can't prove. Silliness. I can turn that whole claptrap back on you. But what good would it do. Sure folks can merely believe what they been taught. Sure folks can believe as a coping mechanism. Doesn't mean they do and it doesn't mean that you are somehow immune.

And your understanding of "rationally" just flows from your own worldview.
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Were you raised christian?
I was raised methodist.
 
yeezus said:
So it's been tested repeatedly and has strong evidence to back it up.
Creationism has neither. Not even remotely close.
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What exactly has been tested? Going from nothing to something? Going from non-organic, non-living matter and energy to organic life? Transpeciation? Mutations? What exactly?

As a philosophy for why there's something and not nothing - not so much.
 
yeezus said:
Yeah, there's definitely a god up there somewhere who cares what you do. If anything, he's an asshole. I'm a good person. I help people out, I do things for other people. I work hard and take care of my business. But I'm going to hell because some raging, selfish, ego-maniacal god needed me to praise him more. Ok bro. I don't even wanna be friends, you're a dick.

I also love the whole "forgiveness" thing. "Ask god for forgiveness for your sins. Oh you did something wrong? It's ok, god forgives." How about you strive to do the right thing because you're a moral human, not because "god" wants you to? There's no one forgiving me for my sins except me. If I do something wrong, I have to live with it and make peace with it on my own. Talking to myself doesn't make it OK.
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You prove in this thread that you are not. You evidence being a brat who stomps his feet a lot, says cruel things and basically is an arsehole. Hey, but cheer up - we are both worse than we think we are...
 
BedellBrave said:
You prove in this thread that you are not. You evidence being a brat who stomps his feet a lot, says cruel things and basically is an arsehole. Hey, but cheer up - we are both worse than we think we are...
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You have no idea what kind of person I am, though. I'm not stomping my feet at all. I just don't delude myself. Honesty is ok**.

**something most christians I know seemingly don't agree with.
 
BedellBrave said:
Which proves people can choose something other than they were taught. Hey, It happened to me too. Disproving your talking point.
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The vast, vast, VAST majority of christians were raised and taught from childhood to be so. Do you agree or disagree?
Far more people move on from christianity than join when they grow older. Agree or disagree?
 
yeezus said:
You have no idea what kind of person I am, though. I'm not stomping my feet at all. I just don't delude myself. Honesty is ok**.

**something most christians I know seemingly don't agree with.
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If your online interactions are any indication of who you are, then I'm afraid I do. And you just keep reinforcing my understanding. Y, you are an angry young man (or woman) whose anger is directed at those who call themselves Christians and toward the God I suppose you would say you actually don't believe in. I get it. Believe me I do.
 
yeezus said:
The vast, vast, VAST majority of christians were raised and taught from childhood to be so. Do you agree or disagree?
Far more people move on from christianity than join when they grow older. Agree or disagree?
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The vast, vast majority of secularists were raised and taught from childhood to be so. Whoop-d-damn-do.

And there you go again saying things you don't know.
 
BedellBrave said:
If your online interactions are any indication of who you are, then I'm afraid I do. And you just keep reinforcing my understanding. Y, you are an angry young man (or woman) whose anger is directed at those who call themselves Christians and toward the God I suppose you would say you actually don't believe in. I get it. Believe me I do.
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I'm far from an angry person, but uh, thanks for your concern.
 
BedellBrave said:
The vast, vast majority of secularists were raised and taught from childhood to be so. Whoop-d-damn-do.

And there you go again saying things you don't know.
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You don't find the first statement significant at all?
Do you think more people convert to christianity than stray from it?
 
I'm a Christian.

I was raised on (Southern Baptist) creationism and subsequently taught evolution in high school. Somewhere in there a soft buffer of intelligent design was injected.

Having little interest in the 'life' sciences to begin with (they truly bore me -- I'm a space cadet, anyways,) I really never cared about evolution until a few years ago when an ex-gf basically ridiculed me for my beliefs. I had never been in a setting where I had to attempt to explain the bridge, in my mind, between evolution and creationism.

Her assertion (quite pompously slathered on), that evolution was this wholly unassailable truth and creationism was a mythic fallacy, bothered me.

So I thought about it.

I reconciled that evolution, in its entirety, was an issue of faith. I don't care how I was made -- I'm more concerned with how I'm living ... right here, right now. If people want to get embroiled (and needlessly inflamed) over the difference between the two theories that's their prerogative but it seems pointless to me.
 
yeezus said:
...I also love the whole "forgiveness" thing. "Ask god for forgiveness for your sins. Oh you did something wrong? It's ok, god forgives." How about you strive to do the right thing because you're a moral human, not because "god" wants you to? There's no one forgiving me for my sins except me. If I do something wrong, I have to live with it and make peace with it on my own. Talking to myself doesn't make it OK.
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I think you've got a misunderstanding of "forgiveness." Maybe it's because you were reared Methodist. ;-)

You certainly mischaracterize the Christian view of it, trivializing it. It's no light matter or a sort of free pass - go do all the rotten things you want to because you are either forgiven already or can get easy forgiveness, with no calls to repentance and to holiness.

Sin, in the Christian worldview, is heinous. It's self-destructive, it's harmful to others and it is against the very One who gives us life and breath. It is a violation of His holiness and his standard of righteousness. It isn't something to be winked at. It is something to be convicted of, something to be confessed, something to turn from. It deserves punishment. The Christian message is though that it is not the final answer. It can be forgiven, not considered to be ours. It can be punished but that eternal punishment not falling on us but upon God himself, in his Son, Jesus Christ. This way both his holiness and his mercy may be honored - in that sin is punished in Jesus and mercy & forgiveness extended to the one who confesses, seeks forgiveness, and repents - seeking moral change. And the one who then has experienced that forgiveness, doesn't then want to rush out and do it again or do worse, but out of humble, amazed, gratitude desires to render thanks by seeking to follow Christ as a disciple. Anything else is a mischaracterization of forgiveness.

Will the Christian who thus views forgiveness this way then not have to live temporal consequences of sin? No. They've wrestled with guilt and they often have to face collateral damage from their sins, but their record before God is that of His Son.

What exactly do you do with your guilt?
 
Hawk said:
I'm a Christian.

I was raised on (Southern Baptist) creationism and subsequently taught evolution in high school. Somewhere in there a soft buffer of intelligent design was injected.

Having little interest in the 'life' sciences to begin with (they truly bore me -- I'm a space cadet, anyways,) I really never cared about evolution until a few years ago when an ex-gf basically ridiculed me for my beliefs. I had never been in a setting where I had to attempt to explain the bridge, in my mind, between evolution and creationism.

Her assertion (quite pompously slathered on), that evolution was this wholly unassailable truth and creationism was a mythic fallacy, bothered me.

So I thought about it.

I reconciled that evolution, in its entirety, was an issue of faith. I don't care how I was made -- I'm more concerned with how I'm living ... right here, right now. If people want to get embroiled (and needlessly inflamed) over the difference between the two theories that's their prerogative but it seems pointless to me.
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They sometimes come across like reformed alcoholics don't they?
 
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