nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
They should be and I edited my response to show that.
How do the Braves find bats for 2017 and beyond?
- Thread starter Horsehide Harry
- Start date
They should be and I edited my response to show that.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Of course it would have been nice to hold on to Peraza as a guy who could fill in if Olivera doesn't pan out, or if Markakis ages, or if Peterson doesn't pan out. I would have been willing to forego Bird and the draft pick in the Olivera trade to hold on to Peraza.
Now we have to find different answers. If Mallex Smith looks good after a few months in AAA next year, I would move Maybin (and sweeten the deal by paying part of his salary and adding a second tier prospect or two) to fill in possible needs at C or elsewhere.
This is the route I would like to see. Sign a #1/#2 starter to go along with Miller, then hope Julio rebounds in 2016 and trade him for an OF bat. I really don't want to touch Braun with a ten foot pole myself, but I like the general idea. I really wish we had gotten Austin Barnes in the Dodgers trade, then we'd be in good shape at C too.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I'm still not seeing a lot of options. But, thanks to those who have put their neck out with suggestions.
I think it interesting that those who are so quick to jump in an tell everyone why their suggestions won't work don't have any solutions of their own that they are willing to throw out for review...
I think it interesting that those who are so quick to jump in an tell everyone why their suggestions won't work don't have any solutions of their own that they are willing to throw out for review...
Trade Teheran Maybin Hursh and Camargo to CHC for Soler, McKinney, Willson Conteras and Jeimer Candelario.
Fowler a FA, so Maybin fills a hole for the Cubbies.
Sign Price and Wieters. Resign AJ.
Bourn-CF (Mallex replaces in '17)
Markakis-RF (McKinney long term OF)
Freeman-1B
Soler-LF
Wieters-C (Contreras long term c)
Olivera-3B
Peterson-2B
Simmons-SS
Bench:
Aj (bethancourt longterm backup C)
Adonis
Swisher
Ciriaco
Eury
Rotation:
Price
Shelby
Folty
Wisler
FA sign or Banuelos/Perez
Rotation full of question marks. If we are in the race at the deadline, go be a buyer and strengthen the rotation
Bullpen:
Grilli
Arodys
Withrow
Simmons
Paco
Winkler
McKirahan
I think this team competes to win the division, but is set up long term also with a solid core of young hitters and position player prospects.
Minors depth is and would be exciting:
C-Bethancourt, Contreras, Herbert
MI: Castro, Albies, Obregon
CI: Ruiz, Candelario, Riley, Edgerton, Yepez
OF: McKinney, Mallex, Braxton, Peterson, Lien
Sp: Jenkins, Sims, Gant, Thurman, Touki, Allard, Fried, Bird, Soroka, Sanchez, Janas, Povse
Add 2016 top 10 pick and strong crowd of 2016 international signings, and the farm looks loaded longterm.
Go get Soler!
Regardless, I think Teheran is the guy that needs to be moved for a hitter. Not a 30 year old like Olivera, but a legit young stud hitter that will be in the middle of our order for many years. Then replace Teheran with an impact FA signing.
Fowler a FA, so Maybin fills a hole for the Cubbies.
Sign Price and Wieters. Resign AJ.
Bourn-CF (Mallex replaces in '17)
Markakis-RF (McKinney long term OF)
Freeman-1B
Soler-LF
Wieters-C (Contreras long term c)
Olivera-3B
Peterson-2B
Simmons-SS
Bench:
Aj (bethancourt longterm backup C)
Adonis
Swisher
Ciriaco
Eury
Rotation:
Price
Shelby
Folty
Wisler
FA sign or Banuelos/Perez
Rotation full of question marks. If we are in the race at the deadline, go be a buyer and strengthen the rotation
Bullpen:
Grilli
Arodys
Withrow
Simmons
Paco
Winkler
McKirahan
I think this team competes to win the division, but is set up long term also with a solid core of young hitters and position player prospects.
Minors depth is and would be exciting:
C-Bethancourt, Contreras, Herbert
MI: Castro, Albies, Obregon
CI: Ruiz, Candelario, Riley, Edgerton, Yepez
OF: McKinney, Mallex, Braxton, Peterson, Lien
Sp: Jenkins, Sims, Gant, Thurman, Touki, Allard, Fried, Bird, Soroka, Sanchez, Janas, Povse
Add 2016 top 10 pick and strong crowd of 2016 international signings, and the farm looks loaded longterm.
Go get Soler!
Regardless, I think Teheran is the guy that needs to be moved for a hitter. Not a 30 year old like Olivera, but a legit young stud hitter that will be in the middle of our order for many years. Then replace Teheran with an impact FA signing.
I like the Cubs trade. I don't think they'll let McKinney go but I'd like to have Soler and Contreras.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I like it but don't think the Braves would be sending enough to get all that back. If Teheran had been better this year, I might believe differently but at this point the Braves would have to be selling at least somewhat low. I think you might have to take out Soler and maybe add in a guy like Eloy Jiminez.
But, I like your thoughts and thanks for contributing to the dialog.
NYCBrave
Well-known member
I'll step up to the plate on this one. First of all, I just don't see much of any corner OF power bats being available to us. For research purposes, I went and looked at every OF who has 15 HR or more currently this season:
Nelson Cruz - 33 HR - Already 35 years old
Mike Trout - 33 HR - No chance
JD Martinez - 30 HR - 27 years old and very intriguing. Broke out last year out of nowhere and continued it this year. What incentive do the Tigers have to move him?
Chris Davis - 29 HR - Not really an OF, plays there on occasion. More of a 1B/DH type
Bryce Harper - 29 HR - No chance
Giancarlo Stanton - 27 HR - Too big of a contract to take on
Jose Bautista - 26 HR - Already 34 years old
Carlos Gonzalez - 25 HR - Turning 30 next year, could be an option
Joc Pederson - 21 HR - Rookie that hit huge wall after massive first two months
Hanley Ramirez - 19 HR - 31 years old, not sure he can play adequate OF
Justin Upton - 19 HR - Hart said we won't sign him, probably not worth the money anyway
Marlon Byrd - 19 HR - 37 years old
Curtis Granderson - 19 HR - 34 years old, 2 more years with Mets contract
Ryan Braun - 19 HR - 31 years old and concerns mentioned here
Yoenis Cespedes - 18 HR - Same as Justin Upton
Torii Hunter - 18 HR - 40 years old
Jay Bruce - 17 HR - 28 years old, but power has tailed off after 3 straight 30 homer seasons
Andrew McCutchen - 17 HR - No chance, signed long term
Adam Jones - 17 HR - 30 years old and don't see Baltimore moving him
Kole Calhoun - 16 HR - not really known as a power guy
Brandon Moss - 15 HR - More of a platoon guy
Brandon Belt - 15 HR - Might be an interesting guy to look at, but he's more of a 1B
Is Stanton's contract really too large to take on?
2016 26 $9,000,000
2017 27 $14,500,000
2018 28 $25,000,000
2019 29 $26,000,000
2020 30 $26,000,000 may opt out of contract following 2020 season
2021 31 $29,000,000
2022 32 $29,000,000
2023 33 $32,000,000
2024 34 $32,000,000
2025 35 $32,000,000
2026 36 $29,000,000
2027 37 $25,000,000
2028 38 $25,000,000 Team Option, $10M Buyout
Assuming he opts out after the 2020 season, trading for him before the 2017 season get him on a 4/91.5 contract, or just under $23M per year. If he doesn't opt out, the increased revenue from the new stadium coincides perfectly with the increases of his contract.
2016 26 $9,000,000
2017 27 $14,500,000
2018 28 $25,000,000
2019 29 $26,000,000
2020 30 $26,000,000 may opt out of contract following 2020 season
2021 31 $29,000,000
2022 32 $29,000,000
2023 33 $32,000,000
2024 34 $32,000,000
2025 35 $32,000,000
2026 36 $29,000,000
2027 37 $25,000,000
2028 38 $25,000,000 Team Option, $10M Buyout
Assuming he opts out after the 2020 season, trading for him before the 2017 season get him on a 4/91.5 contract, or just under $23M per year. If he doesn't opt out, the increased revenue from the new stadium coincides perfectly with the increases of his contract.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I was thinking the same thing. His contract is not bad. My guess though is that if the Marlins put him on the market, the competition for his services would be quite stiff.
NYCBrave
Well-known member
Ok fair enough. Any other feedback from the entire list I provided? lol
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Thanks for the list and I agree with your sentiments.
Because of this I have advocated trading a ML starter or two for minor league bats that have a chance to be those corner outfield/infield anchors needed. To go this way, you have to trust your scouts to target the right guys.
I led off with the Colorado trade which would bring back a power potential 3B who will likely be one of the top 2-3 3rd base prospects in baseball after the season. he's blocked by a ML All Star at the ML level who is under control for several more years. He can't easily play another position.
In that proposed trade, I also had Dahl, who was considered one of the better OF prospects in baseball until having to have his spleen removed. He is an "upside" buy. I also included a AAA catcher who has power potential and at a minimum would give CB competition for the job.
But, the players sent the other way would be Miller (who would then be replaced by the Braves from the FA crop) and Maybin (expendable, especially considering the addition of Bourn). The Rockies need ML pitching and can't really get it except through trade because no pitchers will sign there because of where they play.
That trade wouldn't fix all the problems. Not by far. But McMahon would allow Olivera to slide to 2B (where his bat might play as premium) and provide a high upside OF option who may be a premium CF or at least serviceable LF AND bring a catcher who has a decent defensive reputation, power potential and a RH bat.
Miller is the only pitcher we have I wouldn't want to trade. He has the makings of a big game pitcher.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
I still think Teheran can turn it around. I think its all mental. His stuff has looked great until he seems to hit a wall when he has a rough inning that he can't shake off. But I'd trade him if it was a big return... quite a bit more than we got for Wood.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I think you have to think about what you want the team to be 2-3 years down the road, not what it needs to be next year. Lucroy is a FA in 17 and Braun is past his prime, will decline and is very expensive in terms of monetary cost and, presumably, cost in trade.
Miller has had a great year for the Braves with little to no run support. However, he is about to start getting expensive and has the potential to get VERY expensive by 2017, 2018. There is also the possibility that his success is non repeatable or at least inconsistent until he gets older. If he is this good year after year after year moving forward then he has the potential to be one of the yearly best pitchers in baseball but he WILL become very expensive and could easily leave via FA after 2018. The Braves just let Heyward and JUpton go via trade because they were going to become expensive AND weren't on an extension.
If Miller DOES NOT hold form, say similar or maybe not as bad as seen with Teheran, then his value plummets both to the Braves and to trade partners.
The FA market is full of veteran pitchers who have shown sustained long term success, some who are true ACES. Miller is replaceable via FA. Would it be expensive? Yes. But it becomes a matter of where you want to spend your money. Do you want to spend FA dollars on a proven pitcher or spend those FA dollars on a marginal bat(s) who don't really fit your needs? Do you want to trade Miller and/or Teheran and replace them with known quality pitching from the FA market with your available payroll dollars, bringing back near ready ML bats who fit the needs of the team and provide long term control with limited payroll risk OR keep Miller and/or Teheran, hope they improve or stay as good, so you can pay them much more and hope to band aide together an offense from expensive castoff's (after all, who is going to trade bats that they want to keep for second or third tier pitching) who are aging or FA bats who don't really fit the need?
If the goal was to build the team for 2016 I might agree with you. But, it's not. It's 2017 and beyond.
If the goal was to fill one offensive hole or bring back a complimentary piece to "get the team over the hump" then I might agree. But, it's not. The team has holes at all 3 OF positions unless you believe in Mallex Smith (I don't yet) - Markakis is gone after 2018 or hopefully before, 3B if Olivera plays 2B OR if he flops (he is much more valuable as a 2B than 3B if his defense plays there), and catcher. The Braves don't have any near term power bats in the minors and not many anywhere.