How much do conservatives hate POTUS?

Are folks in this thread actually implying that there weren't Democrats (elected officials) who bitched and moaned about Bush and ridiculed him?

There certainly were. And there were conspiracy theorists and lefties who blew inconsequential issues out of proportion. There was a cottage industry of Bush ridicule in the entertainment world. Your larger point is correct. Everyone likes their guys, everybody hates the other guys.

A few differences, though...there were people who attacked the legitimacy of Bush's presidency, for sure. On the other hand, isn't it fair to consider that there was at least some reason to do so? He lost the popular vote in 2000 and, without a friendly SCOTUS, the final electoral count could well have been different. That definitely made for some sour grapes, which in some cases lasted far beyond what I consider to be reasonable or decorous. Contrast that with the anti-Obama crowd, though. There was a considerable contingent who didn't accept Obama's original election—blowout though it was—and who maintain a position that, despite Republicans losing the Presidency, the Senate, and seats in the House, that his victory in 2012 didn't represent an affirmation of his agenda.

Were Congressional Democrats, as a group, as vitriolic and obstructionist as the current Republican congress? Was there a Joe Wilson moment that I'm forgetting?

There are many things that I don't like about Obama's administration. Many of those are characteristics shared in common with the Bush Admin: lack of transparency, access politics, executive branch power-mongering, using WH access as leverage on the media. There are people on both sides who will now contort to avoid consistency on these issues. I've done my share of rationalizing about various things. But the bottom line for me is that I just don't see anything that has happened under Obama that is as egregious and destructive as the Iraq War hustle. And yet we hear that Obama is the worst thing that's ever happened to the republic. Come on. He's not even as bad as his immediate predecessor.

Finally, I get that people are sensitive to accusations that that opposition to Obama = racism. I'd just encourage you to remember two things:

1) It was not at all uncommon for opposition to Bush to be tarred as "Un-American." Opposition to Bush foreign policy was routinely equated with support for terrorism.
2) Obama, since the 08 election cycle, has attracted a lot of talk about how he's not "one of us." There has been an effort to depict him as The Other, and attacks on his religion, ethnicity, and upbringing. This is pretty clearly playing on racist feelings, and the Repulican electorate has been getting progressively older and whiter during that time period. Now, this doesn't mean that any particular individual with any particular beef is RAYCISS, but it's IMO unrealistic to pretend that there isn't a lot of racism directed at Obama.

And, as a side note, I think that some of the younger posters may not have been as politically aware during the Clinton years, and may not have realized the depths of the Clinton-hate. It was extremely personal, and I would characterize it as "hate." Talk about a cottage industry—anti-Clinton polemics and radio yakking launched countless careers. There were people who used a national platform to accuse the President and First Lady of orchestrating the murder of a staff member . . . hell, at least one. I think they pinned Ron Brown's plane crash on him, too. You didn't have to go to the darkest corners of the internet to find that stuff.
 
There are many things that I don't like about Obama's administration. Many of those are characteristics shared in common with the Bush Admin: lack of transparency, access politics, executive branch power-mongering, using WH access as leverage on the media. There are people on both sides who will now contort to avoid consistency on these issues. I've done my share of rationalizing about various things. But the bottom line for me is that I just don't see anything that has happened under Obama that is as egregious and destructive as the Iraq War hustle. And yet we hear that Obama is the worst thing that's ever happened to the republic. Come on. He's not even as bad as his immediate predecessor.

This.
 
There certainly were. And there were conspiracy theorists and lefties who blew inconsequential issues out of proportion. There was a cottage industry of Bush ridicule in the entertainment world. Your larger point is correct. Everyone likes their guys, everybody hates the other guys.

A few differences, though...there were people who attacked the legitimacy of Bush's presidency, for sure. On the other hand, isn't it fair to consider that there was at least some reason to do so? He lost the popular vote in 2000 and, without a friendly SCOTUS, the final electoral count could well have been different. That definitely made for some sour grapes, which in some cases lasted far beyond what I consider to be reasonable or decorous. Contrast that with the anti-Obama crowd, though. There was a considerable contingent who didn't accept Obama's original election—blowout though it was—and who maintain a position that, despite Republicans losing the Presidency, the Senate, and seats in the House, that his victory in 2012 didn't represent an affirmation of his agenda.

Were Congressional Democrats, as a group, as vitriolic and obstructionist as the current Republican congress? Was there a Joe Wilson moment that I'm forgetting?

There are many things that I don't like about Obama's administration. Many of those are characteristics shared in common with the Bush Admin: lack of transparency, access politics, executive branch power-mongering, using WH access as leverage on the media. There are people on both sides who will now contort to avoid consistency on these issues. I've done my share of rationalizing about various things. But the bottom line for me is that I just don't see anything that has happened under Obama that is as egregious and destructive as the Iraq War hustle. And yet we hear that Obama is the worst thing that's ever happened to the republic. Come on. He's not even as bad as his immediate predecessor.

Finally, I get that people are sensitive to accusations that that opposition to Obama = racism. I'd just encourage you to remember two things:

1) It was not at all uncommon for opposition to Bush to be tarred as "Un-American." Opposition to Bush foreign policy was routinely equated with support for terrorism.
2) Obama, since the 08 election cycle, has attracted a lot of talk about how he's not "one of us." There has been an effort to depict him as The Other, and attacks on his religion, ethnicity, and upbringing. This is pretty clearly playing on racist feelings, and the Repulican electorate has been getting progressively older and whiter during that time period. Now, this doesn't mean that any particular individual with any particular beef is RAYCISS, but it's IMO unrealistic to pretend that there isn't a lot of racism directed at Obama.

And, as a side note, I think that some of the younger posters may not have been as politically aware during the Clinton years, and may not have realized the depths of the Clinton-hate. It was extremely personal, and I would characterize it as "hate." Talk about a cottage industry—anti-Clinton polemics and radio yakking launched countless careers. There were people who used a national platform to accuse the President and First Lady of orchestrating the murder of a staff member . . . hell, at least one. I think they pinned Ron Brown's plane crash on him, too. You didn't have to go to the darkest corners of the internet to find that stuff.

You could of just stopped after the first paragraph...
 
There certainly were. And there were conspiracy theorists and lefties who blew inconsequential issues out of proportion. There was a cottage industry of Bush ridicule in the entertainment world. Your larger point is correct. Everyone likes their guys, everybody hates the other guys.

A few differences, though...there were people who attacked the legitimacy of Bush's presidency, for sure. On the other hand, isn't it fair to consider that there was at least some reason to do so? He lost the popular vote in 2000 and, without a friendly SCOTUS, the final electoral count could well have been different. That definitely made for some sour grapes, which in some cases lasted far beyond what I consider to be reasonable or decorous. Contrast that with the anti-Obama crowd, though. There was a considerable contingent who didn't accept Obama's original election—blowout though it was—and who maintain a position that, despite Republicans losing the Presidency, the Senate, and seats in the House, that his victory in 2012 didn't represent an affirmation of his agenda.

Were Congressional Democrats, as a group, as vitriolic and obstructionist as the current Republican congress? Was there a Joe Wilson moment that I'm forgetting?

There are many things that I don't like about Obama's administration. Many of those are characteristics shared in common with the Bush Admin: lack of transparency, access politics, executive branch power-mongering, using WH access as leverage on the media. There are people on both sides who will now contort to avoid consistency on these issues. I've done my share of rationalizing about various things. But the bottom line for me is that I just don't see anything that has happened under Obama that is as egregious and destructive as the Iraq War hustle. And yet we hear that Obama is the worst thing that's ever happened to the republic. Come on. He's not even as bad as his immediate predecessor.

Finally, I get that people are sensitive to accusations that that opposition to Obama = racism. I'd just encourage you to remember two things:

1) It was not at all uncommon for opposition to Bush to be tarred as "Un-American." Opposition to Bush foreign policy was routinely equated with support for terrorism.
2) Obama, since the 08 election cycle, has attracted a lot of talk about how he's not "one of us." There has been an effort to depict him as The Other, and attacks on his religion, ethnicity, and upbringing. This is pretty clearly playing on racist feelings, and the Repulican electorate has been getting progressively older and whiter during that time period. Now, this doesn't mean that any particular individual with any particular beef is RAYCISS, but it's IMO unrealistic to pretend that there isn't a lot of racism directed at Obama.

And, as a side note, I think that some of the younger posters may not have been as politically aware during the Clinton years, and may not have realized the depths of the Clinton-hate. It was extremely personal, and I would characterize it as "hate." Talk about a cottage industry—anti-Clinton polemics and radio yakking launched countless careers. There were people who used a national platform to accuse the President and First Lady of orchestrating the murder of a staff member . . . hell, at least one. I think they pinned Ron Brown's plane crash on him, too. You didn't have to go to the darkest corners of the internet to find that stuff.

That is true. The "otherness" of Obama has been transferred to a lot of his policies to make them seem more radical than they actually are. I always get a good laugh out of the "socialist" charge. He's a tick to the left of Bill Clinton, if that. If his health plan was socialist, than so was pretty much all of the plan Gingrich proposed back in the 1990s in response to what Clinton's task force proposed.

Obama has been routinely and consistently attacked from the left in publications like The Nation. He's pretty much your standard left-of-center establishment consensus guy. He ain't Kucinich.
 
You could of just stopped after the first paragraph...

Or I could have continued, and made the point that I think that all of us are best served to try to be objective on occasion, despite our prejudices. I guess the alternative is to be hyperpartisan until you get backed into a corner, then pull out the "but everybody does it" card.
 
Just do a Google search of images for George W. Bush and target or Hitler or monkey or decapitated or assassinated. Which reminds me, wasn't there even a film entitled, Death of a President?
 
That is true. The "otherness" of Obama has been transferred to a lot of his policies to make them seem more radical than they actually are. I always get a good laugh out of the "socialist" charge. He's a tick to the left of Bill Clinton, if that. If his health plan was socialist, than so was pretty much all of the plan Gingrich proposed back in the 1990s in response to what Clinton's task force proposed.

Obama has been routinely and consistently attacked from the left in publications like The Nation. He's pretty much your standard left-of-center establishment consensus guy. He ain't Kucinich.

Clinton, the previous Great Satan, was likewise called a socialist, a Marxist, etc . . . and was the patron saint of the DLC/Third Way bunch, who were about as popular with actual lefties as so-called RINOS are with Tea Partiers.
 
Just do a Google search of images for George W. Bush and target or Hitler or monkey or decapitated or assassinated. Which reminds me, wasn't there even a film entitled, Death of a President?

There was. A film written, directed, and produced by notorious members of the American left—oh, wait . . . actually by non-Americans.
 
Was it Brits or Canadians? Matters little to me. It's just a silly and short-sighted, game to act like any political "team" out there today doesn't include haters, racists, bigots, or idiots. It's also unhelpful, imho, to try to explain away or rationalize it, as if the other "team" couldn't do the same. We can all play that game.
 
You have to give politicians one thing, they are masters at keeping us arguing amongst ourselves long enough to rob us blind without getting caught. That is why every election is about abortion and *** marriage and blah blah blah.
 
You have to give politicians one thing, they are masters at keeping us arguing amongst ourselves long enough to rob us blind without getting caught. That is why every election is about abortion and *** marriage and blah blah blah.

Yep. I always laugh when people vote for folks based on their stance on abortion or *** marriage.... They're not ever going to do anything to change it
 
Yep. I always laugh when people vote for folks based on their stance on abortion or *** marriage.... They're not ever going to do anything to change it

Exactly. Saying you are for or against those two issues guarantees you either the hardcore right-wing vote or the hardcore left-wing vote. And the ensuing argument drowns out the voice of those in the middle who could possibly create some measure of change if ever allowed to be heard. Meanwhile, honest politicians spend millions to get a job that pays next to nothing (compared to what they spent). Yet they all make bank skimming off the top on the way in and the bottom on the way out.
 
Exactly. Saying you are for or against those two issues guarantees you either the hardcore right-wing vote or the hardcore left-wing vote. And the ensuing argument drowns out the voice of those in the middle who could possibly create some measure of change if ever allowed to be heard. Meanwhile, honest politicians spend millions to get a job that pays next to nothing (compared to what they spent). Yet they all make bank skimming off the top on the way in and the bottom on the way out.

I actually had a conversation with Ron Paul about abortion. He told me that house republicans NEVER want the abortion law changed, because it such a huge rallying cry for R voters. If it ever did get changed, the left would have the same rallying call and make it impossible for R's to ever win an election (pretty much at that point anyway)
 
What many don't seem to realize is that what we are seeing is exactly how this was all built to be run (just about). It is a system designed for stalemate on almost every issue except the obvious ones. Just think about it. When does everything go to ****? When either party controls enough of the government to get stuff done. This would all work fine if we made sure elected officials couldn't profit financially off their decisions.
 
Was it Brits or Canadians? Matters little to me. It's just a silly and short-sighted, game to act like any political "team" out there today doesn't include haters, racists, bigots, or idiots.

You think I disagree with that?

But wait, it matters little to you that this movie that you were specifically using as a burn was not produced by Americans?

It's also unhelpful, imho, to try to explain away or rationalize it, as if the other "team" couldn't do the same. We can all play that game.

Sure, if you see it as a game. Or, there can be some amount of objective truth in a given argument.
 
It is just common sense that a business can only profit/survive so long with someone stealing from it. 500+ stealing? Yeah.
 
I actually had a conversation with Ron Paul about abortion. He told me that house republicans NEVER want the abortion law changed, because it such a huge rallying cry for R voters. If it ever did get changed, the left would have the same rallying call and make it impossible for R's to ever win an election (pretty much at that point anyway)

I believe that. And I am certain there are similar issues for the left where they feel the same. What do you need for a successful public heist? A distraction.
 
I actually had a conversation with Ron Paul about abortion. He told me that house republicans NEVER want the abortion law changed, because it such a huge rallying cry for R voters. If it ever did get changed, the left would have the same rallying call and make it impossible for R's to ever win an election (pretty much at that point anyway)

Just curious sturg, what did/have the Repubs on this board said to you in reference to this statement? Denial, rebuttals, ignoring it, hoping it will go away or that nobody (particularly an ahole like me who's been saying this for quite some time) would notice?? What say you???
 
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