yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
If Reddick weren't a lefty I'd love to have him.
There are a couple of names to like in there, though.
If the Padres move Kimbrel
- Thread starter CJC
- Start date
If Reddick weren't a lefty I'd love to have him.
There are a couple of names to like in there, though.
Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
I'm a Reddick fan. He's still a good defender, but he can't hit lefties at all. Good platoon option for someone who slugs lefties.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
He's having a bad year. Maybe it is the start of the end of his career. OR, maybe, at 30 he bounces back and has several more very good years. Maybin was straight out scrap heap stuff before he got out of San Diego. Now, many thinks he's virtually untouchable and he's still hitting less than .800 OPS.
The bottom line is that Kemp would be a gamble. But, would it be more of a gamble than giving Cespedes $100M and still having CJ on the books? Or trading big talent to take on someone else's large dollar discard like Braun (as I have seen thrown around) and still having CJ (BTW, would Braun be the same player in Atlanta that he is in Milwaukee?). And that doesn't even count the Kimbrel factor.
I am on record as saying the best thing to do would be to package Maybin with CJ and get what you can. Trade Wood and Miller now for as many high potential power bats that you can bring back AT THE DEADLINE and sign a couple of high end SP free agents to replace them. Also, move Grilli, Johnson and Avilan for anything good you can get.
But, if you don't do that, then you have to be willing to get creative.
Doesn't mean you give them away for a guy who pitches 70-80 innings a year and makes $12 million per.
A $20 million/year gamble. Maybin's owed $20,500,000 total through 2017 IF you don't exercise his option.
I wouldn't trade for Kemp if you put a gun to my head personally.
Just a point of clarification: The Dodgers are paying ~$32MM of Kemp's remaining salary ... so he's actually owed roughly $18MM per year as it currently stands. Still way too much to even consider. But, a scenario where the Padres might be open to trading him -- and I haven't yet read anything to suggest they might -- would probably, almost certainly, also entail they pick up a bit of cash too. There are worse options (like paying Cespedes $20MM+ per year for a decade) than Kemp at $12/13ishMM for 4 years.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
If you subtract CJ's salary, about $4.5M per year, that you would be sending the other way in my proposal then Kemp is a $13.5M/$14M guy plus we get Kimbrel back. I had forgotten the $32M from the Dodgers (if I ever knew).
If the Braves FO made the moves you suggest, I would be done as a fan.
Kemp' sage and contract make that 'gamble' not even close to worth taking. We signed BJ and Uggla for cheaper deals at a younger age coming off better seasons...and look where those got us. If Maybin had Kemp's contract, we'd be looking to do whatever it took to get rid of him.
I am not at all in favor of giving Cespedes a big contract. That would be a really bad move. And you're suggesting getting rid of two good, young, cheap pitchers for two older, far more expensive ones and paying Kemp a crap ton. We're not trying to get out from under BJ, Uggla, and CJ so that we can then turn around and have over 60% of the payroll in 3 players for 4+ years. Include Freeman, and we'd have no flexibility anytime in the near future...not to mention whatever you're paying these bats you traded for.
What you're suggesting would be incredibly short-sighted, irresponsible, and would go against everything the FO is trying to do.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I disagree completely. You have to take things as they are not as you would like them to be. The way they are is that the Braves have no offense in the minors to speak of besides three punch an judy guys who are blocked by three young punch and judy guys at the ML level. Then they have a very small handful of maybes who look like long shots or are so far away you can't even begin to hope to get anything worthwhile out of them for 4-5 years.
Everyone wants to sign FA bats in the offseason when there isn't any, at least none that the Braves have any hope of signing. I admit that they could always overpay for a marginal guy like a Cespedes but that way is utter folly unless you just get unbelievably lucky.
If not that, everyone wants to "trade for bats" like other teams are just going to line up and send their bats over for the Braves marginal or, at minimum, unproven pitching prospects (we'll keep the best and trade the rest) when the current environment in baseball is a general surplus of pitching (comparative to impact bats) and a specific motherload of pitching in the FA market.
You say that I want to trade away two young controllable arms for older expensive guys. Not so, I want to trade two pitchers who are possible at peak value right now for as many high end bats (and prospects in general) that I can get for them, keeping under consideration that by the time 2017 rolls around they will be approaching FA and will be getting very expensive through arbitration (if they continue as they are now) OR not worth what they are now because they have passed peak value or worse, injured or completely ineffective. The only way those two are irreplaceable is if you know the future and see them as HoF type guys. I don't. I would replace them by signing two veteran TOR starters (who would be admittedly very expensive, but at a better investment than throwing money at marginal bats then scratching your head at another terrible offense), who would come in and anchor the rotation and act as mentors to the pitching that the FO worked so hard to acquire in the first place.
You act as if in 2017 Miller and Wood would still be cheap. If they maintain any kind of similar pace they won't be cheap. They will be hard to keep in terms of money and years. If they are still cheap I will mean that they suck or are injured.
As for you quitting as a Braves fan, well that would be most unfortunate and I would hope that you would jump back on the bandwagon when we started winning pennants.
I'm not suggesting throwing money at a marginal guy. You are. I don't think we should go nuts in FA. I think we should continue with the plan.
Keep Maybin into the offseason and get a longer look at Mallex in AAA. If we think he's ready, call him up to play CF and move Maybin to RF with Markakis in LF. Trade Peraza with a pitching prospect for either a good piece at 3B, C, or in the OF (which would allow you to trade Maybin for one of the other positions). Bring Uribe back. Look at a decent FA piece at 3B or C (not anyone great). Sign a good FA SP (ace if the deal makes sense or someone a little below that), allowing you flexibility to move another pitcher if need be. Keep most of your pitching depth.
That team likely wouldn't be worse than one paying Kemp $18 million and blowing the bank on two top FA SPs, and it's set up much better for the future.
Keep Maybin into the offseason and get a longer look at Mallex in AAA. If we think he's ready, call him up to play CF and move Maybin to RF with Markakis in LF. Trade Peraza with a pitching prospect for either a good piece at 3B, C, or in the OF (which would allow you to trade Maybin for one of the other positions). Bring Uribe back. Look at a decent FA piece at 3B or C (not anyone great). Sign a good FA SP (ace if the deal makes sense or someone a little below that), allowing you flexibility to move another pitcher if need be. Keep most of your pitching depth.
That team likely wouldn't be worse than one paying Kemp $18 million and blowing the bank on two top FA SPs, and it's set up much better for the future.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Again, we will have to agree to disagree. You called my approach short sighted but to me its you that are being short sighted.
You conveniently forget that the whole Kemp idea was based on the fact of getting Kimbrel back as part of the deal AND shipping them CJ. So Kemp would be a net $13.5M per year gamble. But, I can do without Kemp and/or Kimbrel. But, if you do that then you likely have to give up Maybin in trade to be able to move CJ or go ahead and accept that your eating CJ's salary, which the Braves FO doesn't want to do (nor should they if they have other options).
And you say that your plan doesn't include throwing money at marginal guys then start talking about bringing Uribe back who is at least 36, having a spike in performance that is probably unsustainable, and already making $6.5M and will command more if he keeps up the current pace.
Your plan focuses on short term results. Have a hole throw a band aide on it and hope it holds.
My plan is more long term focused which is look for long term talented fits. Tie your money up in top end pitching and a bat or two and fill in around them with the talented, youngest roster in baseball backed by a strong farm with prospects spread from AAA down through GCL and DSL. And let them grow and mature into a dynasty.
Your plan is safer but with little upside, essentially more of the same with a few prospects to exploit.
My plan is riskier but with much more long term upside and an ability to have flexibility to sustain growth as you move forward.
Haha no, my plan is much more long-term focused. Your plan is to break the bank on 5-6 players and leave no financial flexibility at all for at least 4-5 years. You're hoping for instant return while knowing it will diminish over time.
I'm looking to plug a couple holes while still mostly looking to the future.
I'm looking to plug a couple holes while still mostly looking to the future.
Here's what we'd be paying come 2017:
Kemp: ~$18 million (we don't know if that money from LA was front-loaded or not)
Freeman: $21 million
Kimbrel: $13 million
Markakis: $11 million
Simmons: $8 million
FA SP: ~$20 million
FA SP: ~$20 million
You're already well over $100 million, and that's probably a conservative estimate on the price for two high-end free agent starters. That doesn't include anybody else. Not only would it be difficult to fill out the remainder of the roster, you would have 0 flexibility to do anything, include extensions for anybody else, and that team wouldn't necessarily be all that great, considering you're paying two average-at-best OFs about $30 million.
And you would only have Kimbrel coming off the books after that year. And if your plan is to let him go at that point, then why get him back?
Kemp: ~$18 million (we don't know if that money from LA was front-loaded or not)
Freeman: $21 million
Kimbrel: $13 million
Markakis: $11 million
Simmons: $8 million
FA SP: ~$20 million
FA SP: ~$20 million
You're already well over $100 million, and that's probably a conservative estimate on the price for two high-end free agent starters. That doesn't include anybody else. Not only would it be difficult to fill out the remainder of the roster, you would have 0 flexibility to do anything, include extensions for anybody else, and that team wouldn't necessarily be all that great, considering you're paying two average-at-best OFs about $30 million.
And you would only have Kimbrel coming off the books after that year. And if your plan is to let him go at that point, then why get him back?
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
Uribe's overall numbers on the season fit with what he's been doing since 2013 and while I was concerned about a decline due to his age at first. Now I have come around to view him as someone that has aged well and probably still has another year or two in the tank at his current level. So if you ask me it would make a lot of sense to bring Uribe back on a one year deal with some sort of option (be it vesting/team option or just a team option). There are not many options for third base out there that should come as cheap as Uribe. Plus Uribe has been a really good defender at third over the last few years too.
BTW, I doubt Uribe would command a lot more than what he is now making given his age. I think he'd stay here for a fair offer as long as he likes it here.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
Hey! I don't see Francoeur on the list!
Mayberry is someone I'd take a look at during the off-season. Has never quite put it together, but I think he could be a solid part of a platoon.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I never said that I would keep all those guys. Some of them could be gone, Kimbrel being one. But, even if they are not, AND you are right about Kemp netting $18M vs $13.5M and if you add another $10M to the starting pitcher total because it will be more like 25/25 on average the total for those guys would be: $121M, so even if you AVERAGE $1M for the other 18 guys (which we shouldn't under my plan) you are still at $139M, which should be well below the budget.
Now, if you think that the Braves are going through this rebuild, are reaping the benefits of the new National and Local TV money, are moving into a nice shiny new park in the hart of Braves supporters and aren't going to increase the budget, I can see your point. But, IF the budget goes where it should go and where I have heard it stated that it is going ($150M and no I don't have that confirmed and even if I did it could change), then there should be plenty of money to do this.