If we bring in 2 SP what do they do with prospects

B

bravesguy

Danville Rookie
I find all the talk about the rotation puts the rebuild into a questionable holding pattern. If they get 2 - MOR or better SP, then they have a lot of prospects that they think are close that will possibly have to wait for a while or what do they do with them?

I think the rotation will be Tehran, Folty, SP1, SP2, Wisler. That is 5 and barring injury, the rest have to wait. But there is a lot of the rest.

What do you do with them (Blair, Jenkins, Perez, Gant, Collmenter, Whalen). That is more than Gwinnett can hold so the left over must be bullpen or traded, right?

Gwinnett rotation will then probably be Whalen, Blair, Newcome, Ellis, Jenkins. But what about Sims, Povse, Gant, Mader, Kelly? I guess a couple Gant, Jenkins, Kelly could be bullpen guys but I think we are well stocked on those types. maybe hold them down at Mississippi?

Mississippi rotation will then probably be Sims, Povse, Mader, Weigel. Who fills the #5? I think Allard, Soroka deserve it, but i could also argue for Touki & Fried.

And after all those decisions are made, I believe Whalen & Newcome are going to prove they deserve a big league shot next year at some point. What do you do then? BTW: I think Blair, Jenkins, and Gant are given injury replacement without proving to be better than Whalen and Newcome, but that is just based on this year.

WOW, going to be a fun spring!
 
I believe a fair amount will be traded this offseason. Not gut the farm traded, but Gant/Whalen/Jenkins/Blair/Perez/Povse/Mader could be all be involved in deals(obviously all of them won't but I bet 2-3 are) and it does very little to hurt our most talented crop.
 
Still spelling it Newcome? Adding an E and missing a B... Prospects don't have to come up next year....
 
zbhargrove said:
Still spelling it Newcome? Adding an E and missing a B... Prospects don't have to come up next year....
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If Collmenter is still around he's probably #5 at the ML level.

I think what you will see at AAA to start the year will be: Newcomb, Sims, Wisler, Blair, Gant/Whalen (if anyone gets hurt at the ML level then Gant/Whalen get the first call). I think Jenkins is LR there.

AA will be: Ellis, Povse, Mader, Weigel, Parsons

High A: Withrow (moves up fast), Fried, Soroka, Toussaint, Allard

Low A: Sanchez, Wentz, Anderson, Martinez, Walker (the may push Muller and Wilson and let them 1/2 start with Wentz and Anderson for a while)
 
Coppy has said that he always wanted to be bringing in talent. I think the plan is to fill all of our holes, even if they're not with sexy long term answers, and then systematically start upgrading wherever we can.
Johnson is a good example. We have a good inexpensive closer, but that won't stop us from acquiring a much better one if the situation presents itself. We couldn't go in to the offseason with that hole though.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Prospects start in the minors. When any of the starters gets injured or underperforms we should have prospects ready to take their place. If we have too many good pitchers that's a good situation to be in. I think people are going to be underwhelmed at the caliber if SP we bring in. It's going to be guys on short term deals.
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If that's so, why bother? And I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just puzzled. Keep three slots for ongoing auditions.

Does signing Rubby delaRosa really bring in more fans than auditioning the guys upthread until a couple of them separate themselves? Does Rubby make us more competitive? No-to-marginally, I think.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
If Collmenter is still around he's probably #5 at the ML level.

I think what you will see at AAA to start the year will be: Newcomb, Sims, Wisler, Blair, Gant/Whalen (if anyone gets hurt at the ML level then Gant/Whalen get the first call). I think Jenkins is LR there.

AA will be: Ellis, Povse, Mader, Weigel, Parsons

High A: Withrow (moves up fast), Fried, Soroka, Toussaint, Allard

Low A: Sanchez, Wentz, Anderson, Martinez, Walker (the may push Muller and Wilson and let them 1/2 start with Wentz and Anderson for a while)
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Looks about right. I would tweak a few things. Withrow in AA rotation. Ellis to AAA pen. Sanchez in High A rotation. Low A would be Anderson, Wentz, Muller, Walker and Wilson. Baby Harang has an option left and will likely be in the pen or rotation in AAA.
 
nsacpi said:
Looks about right. I would tweak a few things. Withrow in AA rotation. Ellis to AAA pen. Sanchez in High A rotation. Low A would be Anderson, Wentz, Muller, Walker and Wilson. Baby Harang has an option left and will likely be in the pen or rotation in AAA.
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I don't think they are ready for Ellis to the pen yet. Jenkins, yes. I think they will start Ellis in AA to provide a launching point into AAA off a good foundation after someone there moves up or gets hurt or moves out.

Withrow is certainly reasonably ready IF they want to push him. But, I don't think they will. I think they will want to see the BB get better for a bit and move him up pretty fast.

My reasoning on Sanchez was again to challenge him as being the "focus" guy, let him build some early success, then move him up pretty fast.

I think they may 1/2 start Anderson, Wentz, Muller and Wilson for a while where Anderson starts and goes 4+ innings, then Muller comes in and goes 4+, etc. As the season goes on and players move up, I think you unwind that and start stretching them out a bit more.

So, in essence I see it: AAA
 
Can we at agree that there needs to be at least one trade that will move 3-4 prospects (not just pitchers) before the winter meetings that will make the numbers work? It only makes sense that they target a veteran pitcher to fill one of the two projected needs. I concede that Sale's asking price will be obscene, but I have liked Gray for two years and the A's need talent.

But just to throw out another name that hasn't been thrown out previously (that I have seen). Might we interest the Twins in letter go of Phil Hughes? The surgery he was was the same thing that Folty had, removing a rib to relieve nerve pressure, and is projected as being ready for spring training. He's only 30 and signed through 2019 ($13.2 per year). He has a limited no-trade (can block 3 teams).

Free agent: Jeremy Hellickson, perhaps?
 
rico43 said:
Can we at agree that there needs to be at least one trade that will move 3-4 prospects (not just pitchers) before the winter meetings that will make the numbers work? It only makes sense that they target a veteran pitcher to fill one of the two projected needs. I concede that Sale's asking price will be obscene, but I have liked Gray for two years and the A's need talent.

But just to throw out another name that hasn't been thrown out previously (that I have seen). Might we interest the Twins in letter go of Phil Hughes? The surgery he was was the same thing that Folty had, removing a rib to relieve nerve pressure, and if projected as being ready for spring training. He's only 30 and signed through 2019 ($13.2 per year). He has a limited no-trade (can block 3 teams).

Free agent: Jeremy Hellickson, perhaps?
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Yeah, a package of Jenkins, Ellis, Weber and Whalen could net us Hughes. That's not a bad idea.
 
rico43 said:
Can we at agree that there needs to be at least one trade that will move 3-4 prospects (not just pitchers) before the winter meetings that will make the numbers work? It only makes sense that they target a veteran pitcher to fill one of the two projected needs. I concede that Sale's asking price will be obscene, but I have liked Gray for two years and the A's need talent.

But just to throw out another name that hasn't been thrown out previously (that I have seen). Might we interest the Twins in letter go of Phil Hughes? The surgery he was was the same thing that Folty had, removing a rib to relieve nerve pressure, and is projected as being ready for spring training. He's only 30 and signed through 2019 ($13.2 per year). He has a limited no-trade (can block 3 teams).

Free agent: Jeremy Hellickson, perhaps?
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Depends on the prospects so no, we can't agree on that.
 
I still don't think Coppy will start moving prospects. I also agree that I'd rather just add one veteran starter at most, but Coppy has been so adamant about adding two or three I just assume we'll likely have two vets among our five when the season opens. At least we should not have to see so many filler starts from Williams Perez, de la Cruz, Weber, etc next year.

With injuries, etc, I love our 7 man starter depth of Teheran, Folty, Vet, Vet, Wisler, Blair, Gant. If Wisler and Blair don't get it together, I have no problem with Gant. Whalen, Jenkins, Perez (will he still be injured to start next year?) IMO should be passed over by Newcombe, Weigel, or Sims for the next major league starts. Even though we will be more competitive next year, I still see us trying to move some of our vets including these new starters for more prospects, etc. I think it all adds up to us seeing nearly as many different starters next year as we did this year.

I'm not too concerned with jamming the overabundance of prospects into the minors. Pitchers go down, it'll work itself out. We still had plenty of filler starters in games throughout the system last year especially in Carolina. I would specifically keep the fab four from Rome together at a level higher (Allard, Soroka, Fried, and Touki).

That's where I see the bigger jam coming up in two or three years. Let's say Folty, Teheran, Newcombe, vet signed 2017, and Wisler are all looking solid, what do you do with a few of these young high fliers that I think we'll have. I guess that's Coppy will finally move some prospects and when we'll have to be proactive and sell Teheran, Wisler, etc before they lose value. Use that collateral to get us our new corner outfielders, etc depending on which positional prospects seem to be panning out.
 
So maybe its a good thing that a few of our high end starters near mlb ready have not taken that last step yet.
 
Eyeman said:
Whalen, Jenkins, Perez (will he still be injured to start next year?) IMO should be passed over by Newcombe, Weigel, or Sims for the next major league starts. Even though we will be more competitive next year, I still see us trying to move some of our vets including these new starters for more prospects, etc. I think it all adds up to us seeing nearly as many different starters next year as we did this year.

... I would specifically keep the fab four from Rome together at a level higher (Allard, Soroka, Fried, and Touki).
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If we don't lose any of them in Rule V, I really hope the season produces three levels of prospects (Coppy's wave mentality) in the end.

Gwinnett (Newcomb, Sims, Weigel, Whalen & Povse)
Mississippi (Fried, Allard, Soroka, Touki, & Mader)
Rome (Anderson, Wentz, Harrington, Wilson, & Muller)

This assumes Atlanta (Teheran, NewGuy, Folty, NewGuy, Wisler) will have to be prepared to absorb prospects in 2018.

I am talking myself into 3 choices: 1) two new guys are short term (at least 1 is one year), 2) Some of Gant, Jenkins, Blair, Perez, Kelly, Weber must be traded (or at least forever RP guys), or 3) use prospects to trade for position players or lower level arms
 
Kissimmee won't be a throw-away team like Carolina was this year. Most of the Rome arms move there. Fried, I agree, is ready for AA because of his age.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
If that's so, why bother? And I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just puzzled. Keep three slots for ongoing auditions.

Does signing Rubby delaRosa really bring in more fans than auditioning the guys upthread until a couple of them separate themselves? Does Rubby make us more competitive? No-to-marginally, I think.
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I think they are looking for some stability in the rotation and want to avoid the revolving door of not ready for the majors prospects that they've had lately.
 
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