If we lose this series what then for next year

I say we sell high on Kris Medlen and Chris Johnson. I'd trade Medlen and Sean Gilmartin to the Rangers for Jurickson Profar
 
You want specific names?

Well, the first thing I would do is phone Mr. Terry Ryan in the Land of 10,000 lakes because he covets players like Chris Johnson and see if I can pry Miguel Sano from him. There's your 3B and can you guys imagine what an IF with Simmons and Sano would look like for the next 5-10 years? My head nearly explodes from the possibility.
 
I would say let's get Carlos Beltran, but knowing our luck he'd probably have a BJ or Uggla type year next year, and then suck in the playoffs too.
 
I think the Braves need someone who knows how to steal bases either on the team or on the staff. Last year we swiped 101 bases, this year we swiped 64. While a decrease from losing Bourn was expected, as well as some from Heyward's injuries, can we really say we expected this bad of a dropoff? We lost 2 of our 10+ base stealers in Bourn and Prado, but we added twoin Bossman and Schafer. Truly overall Bossman and Schafer about replace Bourn, though not exactly What's truly baffling is that Heyward, Bossman, and Justin all posted career lows in stolen bases. Heyward's low before this year was 9 Justin since becoming a starter hasn't stolen less than 18 and for Bossman he hasn't stolen less than 30 since 2007 (22 in 130 games, may have had a shot at 30 with some more games)

Obviously PT and a terrible offensive season plagued Bossman, but his career average SB per time reaching base is around 16.5% of the time, this year it was 10.1% still down from his career.

Something changed in this club, don't know if it's manager, or coahc, or lack of player confidence, or maybe Bourn was so good at stealing he gave pitcher pointers to everyone that boosted Jason and Prado's numbers. I don't know the problem, but we have to find a solution. Some more stolen bases may have gotten us some more runs. made us bigger threats, etc.
 
ramadon101 said:
You want specific names?

Well, the first thing I would do is phone Mr. Terry Ryan in the Land of 10,000 lakes because he covets players like Chris Johnson and see if I can pry Miguel Sano from him. There's your 3B and can you guys imagine what an IF with Simmons and Sano would look like for the next 5-10 years? My head nearly explodes from the possibility.
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Twinkies are in selling mode, don't know if Chris Johnson holds much value to them, but Gattis may. Obviously not his dream player but they've been hunting for a Cuddyer replacement and that's Gattis.
 
zitothebrave said:
Twinkies are in selling mode, don't know if Chris Johnson holds much value to them, but Gattis may. Obviously not his dream player but they've been hunting for a Cuddyer replacement and that's Gattis.
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I really doubt Gattis goes anywhere purely from a marketing standpoint if nothing else. And honestly, I know small sample and all that but has anyone else on the team looked less intimidated by the playoffs than Gattis?
Why not Kimbrel to the Tigers for Castellanos plus some others. Then you can move Johnson for a couple pretty high position prospects.
 
zitothebrave said:
Twinkies are in selling mode, don't know if Chris Johnson holds much value to them, but Gattis may. Obviously not his dream player but they've been hunting for a Cuddyer replacement and that's Gattis.
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Yeah. They would laugh at Wren if he proposed Chris Johnson for Sano.

Gattis is potentially our best trading chip. Assuming we sign McCann.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
I really doubt Gattis goes anywhere purely from a marketing standpoint if nothing else. And honestly, I know small sample and all that but has anyone else on the team looked less intimidated by the playoffs than Gattis?
Why not Kimbrel to the Tigers for Castellanos plus some others. Then you can move Johnson for a couple pretty high position prospects.
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If we trade Kimbrel we're toast. Winning teams don't trade guys like Kimbrel. Sure he'll be expensive for a reliever but we make up for that by having guys like Minor, Wood, and Julio as cheap starters. I highly doubt Kimbrel stays with the Braves for too much longer, but we need to hold onto him for as long as possible. My guess he's here the next 2 seasons then is gone the following when we have to pony up for Justin and Jason.
 
Omar Infante for 2B. You heard it here first. Unless someone else posted that idea and I didn't see it. I would also sell high on Chris Johnson and go after Michael Young or Polanco for 3B. I may would consider seeing if McCann would take a hometown discount for a 2 yr deal at $18-20 million and also sell high on Gattis. Offer Gattis and Johnson in a deal for a stud pitcher. Get rid of Uggla no matter what. Bring in a specialist to work with Bj Upton on his hitting. Re-sign Hudson for 1-2 yrs. Maybe take a chance on Oswalt and see what happens.

I am not 100% certain what will happen. I think the biggest problem is we have so many holes in the lineup right now and we don't have an ace to go to in the playoffs to give us almost a guaranteed win. I would even take a chance on Bartolo Colon and check in on Halladay as well. I am not certain on current health of Oswalt or Halladay.
 
This is not the time to blow up a 96 win team. Minor tweaking will be all that's done this offseason.

Teams go outside the organization to acquire parts they can not produce from within, so it would be foolish for the Braves to commit the required resources to land someone like Price. Minor and Teheran are on the cusp of taking the next step to becoming Aces, and we just saw Price get knocked around pretty badly himself by the BoSox.

I think the following guys are set in stone for next year: Heyward, Justin, Freeman, Simmons, CJ, BJ (gets a do-over), Laird, Teheran, Minor, Medlen (won't be able to "sell high" because nobody is going to "buy high"), Wood (may be in AAA to start). I don't think any of these guys are going anywhere mainly because there is nobody to replace them.

Gattis: He either needs to catch or be traded. He simply can not be allowed to play LF on a regular basis.

Mac: He is only signed if Gattis is traded.

Hudson: I would like to see him brought back. The Braves need depth in the rotation, and there is no reason not to bring him back.

Beachy: Who knows. He might be done. He might be back. He can't be relied on one way or the other.

Uggla: Have to move on now. He simply can not be the opening day starter at 2B. Whatever Wren needs to do to make that a reality.

Kimbrel: He goes into Arb1, but he won't be crazy expensive. Only trade him if the return is a clear Win with a capital 'W'.

Wren will probably bring in a guy to play 2B via trade. He doesn't have to be a stud, he just has to be a solid MLB player. Pastor is not the answer, and the answer is not currently in the organization.

As usual, he will tinker with the BP and build around Kimbrel, Walden and Avilan. I have long since stopped worrying about Wren's ability to build an effective BP.
 
zitothebrave said:
If we trade Kimbrel we're toast. Winning teams don't trade guys like Kimbrel. Sure he'll be expensive for a reliever but we make up for that by having guys like Minor, Wood, and Julio as cheap starters. I highly doubt Kimbrel stays with the Braves for too much longer, but we need to hold onto him for as long as possible. My guess he's here the next 2 seasons then is gone the following when we have to pony up for Justin and Jason.
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If your lineup can win 10 more games then it is easy to give up 10 saves and still progress. Braves, just like most teams in baseball save the really high payroll ones, really dont place huge value on closers.
 
Enscheff said:
This is not the time to blow up a 96 win team.
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Correct. It is one of the two youngest teams in the majors and the youngest by a significant margin in the post-season. It needs fine-tuning but not wholesale changes.
 
Enscheff said:
This is not the time to blow up a 96 win team. Minor tweaking will be all that's done this offseason.

Teams go outside the organization to acquire parts they can not produce from within, so it would be foolish for the Braves to commit the required resources to land someone like Price. Minor and Teheran are on the cusp of taking the next step to becoming Aces, and we just saw Price get knocked around pretty badly himself by the BoSox.

I think the following guys are set in stone for next year: Heyward, Justin, Freeman, Simmons, CJ, BJ (gets a do-over), Laird, Teheran, Minor, Medlen (won't be able to "sell high" because nobody is going to "buy high"), Wood (may be in AAA to start). I don't think any of these guys are going anywhere mainly because there is nobody to replace them.

Gattis: He either needs to catch or be traded. He simply can not be allowed to play LF on a regular basis.
Mac: He is only signed if Gattis is traded.
Hudson: I would like to see him brought back. The Braves need depth in the rotation, and there is no reason not to bring him back.
Beachy: Who knows. He might be done. He might be back. He can't be relied on one way or the other.
Uggla: Have to move on now. He simply can not be the opening day starter at 2B. Whatever Wren needs to do to make that a reality.
Kimbrel: He goes into Arb1, but he won't be crazy expensive. Only trade him if the return is a clear Win with a capital 'W'.

Wren will probably bring in a guy to play 2B via trade. He doesn't have to be a stud, he just has to be a solid MLB player. Pastor is not the answer, and the answer is not currently in the organization.

As usual, he will tinker with the BP and build around Kimbrel, Walden and Avilan. I have long since stopped worrying about Wren's ability to build an effective BP.
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Great perspective. I cannot disagree with a single word.
Some names on your post I would question but nothing that would work.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
If your lineup can win 10 more games then it is easy to give up 10 saves and still progress. Braves, just like most teams in baseball save the really high payroll ones, really dont place huge value on closers.
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We've never had a close as dominant as Kimbrel (even with Smoltz).

Kimbrel is a once in a generation type of player.

Reason we haven't put much emphasis on closers before, is because we've never had a closer like Kimbrel. He's about as automatic as you can get.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
If your lineup can win 10 more games then it is easy to give up 10 saves and still progress. Braves, just like most teams in baseball save the really high payroll ones, really dont place huge value on closers.
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You're not gonna add that much winning.

WPA is a stat that basically calculates the odds a player added to his teams chances of winning. Placing more value on clutch hits and IP than other things.

Over the last 3 years Kimbrel has compiled an 8.49 WPA, you knwo how many hitters have that number? 17. Only one Brave

So sure trading for Kimbrel will potentially add value as we'll likely get a good position player in return and it will produce a net win interms of WAR, but our situational play will take a big hit. Have a guy who's virtually lights out to seal up close games is extremely valuable to a winning team. If we were a below .500 team then yeah we should trade Kimbrel, but as a winning team Kimbrel locks down more wins than most. Only one Braves player has a higher WPA than Kimbrel and that's Freeman. We're not gonna trade Kimbrel and get a hitter of Freeman's caliber back (the only reason he's over Kimbrel is this season, and we won't get someone that good for Kimbrel unless someone gets flukey)

Closers are like kickers. To their team they hold immense value, on the open market they hold less because only a handful of teams are looking for one and odds are they already have a pretty good one.
 
The charts show 20 losses by our bullpen. I dont know how many shutouts. But if your lineup can prevent just 10 of those losses then the importance of the closer is mitigated to a degree. Then you also have to look at how many of the saves were 1 run, 2 run or 3 run. You have to assume that the 3 run saves could have been accomplished by another reliever.

So when Kimbrel goes in asking for Lincecum money or Papelbon, Soriano or Rivera how do you respond.

Then too, I would not even consider tearing down the roster, especially the young pitching but you have to know that Washington is not going to stand still.
Neither will the Mets and definitely not the Phillies. We all know Wash has a better pitching rotation than ours, at least on paper. Philly, while aging has better hitters when healthy. Our salvation in the division is that the Mets are the Mets and Marlins will always be a question mark Just like in 2012, before the season started was there any reason to think they would flop so terribly?
 
Kimbrel will get a slight raise over what Papelbon got in arb 1 and arb 2 unless he does something like wins the Cy Young. Arb 1 Papelbon got 6.25 mil arb 2 got 9.35 and arb 3 12

So he'll be along those lines though probably higher because he does have a ROY. We can afford an approx 7M and 11M reliever the next 2 years. It's after that when things get dicey.

What I predict happens is after next year (though maybe this year but I highly doubt it) is medlen is traded before his arb 3 clearing salary then after the following year Kimbrel is traded before his arb 3 to clear salary.

Hopefully the Braves owner**** will be allowing a slightly higher payroll so we can keep Kimbrel around.
 
As others have said.... No need to panic here. A very young team just won 96 games with incredible inconsistency.

1) Everybody gets older, more consistent, and more experienced!!!
2) Get rid of Uggla. (Probably need an outside replacement, but I am higher on Pastor than most. I think he can be an above average replacement saving money for bigger needs)
3) Decide what to do about McCann. (I am okay with bringing him back and letting Gattis be a swing guy/supersub, but would also be okay with letting Mac go and catching Gattis)

Other than that, they only need minor tweeks.

1) I am okay with bringing Hudson back year to year.
2) I am okay with a bench of Pena, Laird, Schafer, Terdo, and one of LaStella/EJ/Pastor.
3) Stuck with BJ, so help him get better.
4) I am okay with pursuing an Ace pitcher if the money is there, but I like our young pitching.

All in all, 2B is really the only major hole. The rest is tweeking.
 
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