If you were Frank Wren...

1. No way we can afford both Justin and Jason. Therefore, trade Justin for a strong prospect(s) and offer Jason a 4-5 year deal.

2. Trade Gattis to an American league team for prospects.

3. Package BJ and a top 10 prospect to get rid of his salary, or at least as much as possible.

4. Give qualifying offer to Santana and get an additional sandwich pick in next year's draft. He will sign a long term deal with someone.

5. Sign Bonifacio to a one year deal with a 2nd year option for the bench. Let all other free agents walk.
 
If we are looking at pretty much the same offense next year then what we need to do is load up the bullpen. Our starting pitching is going to keep us in games and the pen is going to be the difference. We need to create the same type of pen we had when we had EOF, Venters, and Kimbrel. Walden must be retained.
 
Next year going into the season we will have Teheran, Minor, and Wood returning.....Santana will more than likely be leaving for a bigger deal and Harang more than likely will not be back....

And no, we are not going to be counting on the return of Beachy or Medlin, look at Venters there is no guarantee they will pitch again next year. The way I look at it, you need to do something with those 2 spots in the rotation. If Beachy and Medlin come back, put them in the pen to get back into game action with less stress on their arms.
 
skillet said:
1. No way we can afford both Justin and Jason. Therefore, trade Justin for a strong prospect(s) and offer Jason a 4-5 year deal.

2. Trade Gattis to an American league team for prospects.

3. Package BJ and a top 10 prospect to get rid of his salary, or at least as much as possible.

4. Give qualifying offer to Santana and get an additional sandwich pick in next year's draft. He will sign a long term deal with someone.

5. Sign Bonifacio to a one year deal with a 2nd year option for the bench. Let all other free agents walk.
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You just ditched half the offensive production for prospects, and allowed one of the best starters on the staff to walk for another draft pick.

You then packaged a prospect with BJ to unload him.

So which is it, are you trying to rebuild the farm or not? This exact type of listless roster management is how teams become directionless and terrible.

If Gattis and Justin are traded this offseason there is no hope for the team to compete in the next 2-3 years, and that will not be allowed to happen going into a new stadium.
 
jcc03004 said:
If we are looking at pretty much the same offense next year then what we need to do is load up the bullpen. Our starting pitching is going to keep us in games and the pen is going to be the difference. We need to create the same type of pen we had when we had EOF, Venters, and Kimbrel. Walden must be retained.
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I agree with this. I think if we had a healthy Venters and O'Flaherty this year this would be close to a 100 win team. The bullpen doesn't look as bad because the starters are going deeper into games than we are used to. In 2011 we were 3rd in innings by relievers, 2012 15th, 2013 and 2014 second fewest. We need to improve the pen but not waste them by bringing in starters who can't average 6+ innings every start .
 
skillet said:
1. No way we can afford both Justin and Jason.
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Sure we can. We are paying Uggla, BJ, Heywood, and Justin a combined 46 million this year and will pay them 51 million combined. Uggla comes off the books after 2015 and BJ will only have 2 years left :facepalm: . If I was a Liberty I would see the new stadium as a chance to drastically improve revenue and franchise value. If they raise payroll to 130-140 million they can re-sign both and potentially maintain the attendance boost that comes with a new stadium.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Sure we can. We are paying Uggla, BJ, Heywood, and Justin a combined 46 million this year and will pay them 51 million combined. Uggla comes off the books after 2015 and BJ will only have 2 years left :facepalm: . If I was a Liberty I would see the new stadium as a chance to drastically improve revenue and franchise value. If they raise payroll to 130-140 million they can re-sign both and potentially maintain the attendance boost that comes with a new stadium.
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I think it would be difficult to keep both Justin and Jason without moving BJ or CJ. Not impossible, but difficult. Which is why I'm willing to pair BJ and Bethancourt in a trade to move BJ's salary. It is the third year of BJ's salary (2017) when a crunch is likely to occur. That's the year we are supposed to move to the new stadium. Maybe the team will allow payroll to balloon for that one year. After that we should be ok.
 
I highly doubt we get off the hook for much of BJ'S contract. I would say if we could get off for 5 million a year of it that that would be a big win. CJ won't be hard if the do it now. Another bad year and he won't have any value left. Unless he has caught Ugglaitis there is no reason to expect him to have fallen off a cliff offensively. He was a decently productive player for several years before we got him and he should not be declining in physical skill.

Wren can always backloaded the contracts to make them fit the budget in the short term. Easier if they take only 20 mill a year. Personally I would offer 8 years 160 million to each. 15 mill per the first 4 years and 25 mill per the last 4. Then trade them before they get to the last 4 years.
 
If you pay Heyward, Upton, Freeman, and SImmons, how much money is left over when also wanting to field a decent starting staff and having to worry about 4 other position players?

I think it's doable, but it puts a lot of pressure on fielding some low cost positional players.
 
gilesfan said:
If you pay Heyward, Upton, Freeman, and SImmons, how much money is left over when also wanting to field a decent starting staff and having to worry about 4 other position players?

I think it's doable, but it puts a lot of pressure on fielding some low cost positional players.
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Well, if we resign Bonifacio, keep LaStella and Gosselin, and add Peraza, it could work. I guess Peraza would play third.
 
gilesfan said:
If you pay Heyward, Upton, Freeman, and SImmons, how much money is left over when also wanting to field a decent starting staff and having to worry about 4 other position players?

I think it's doable, but it puts a lot of pressure on fielding some low cost positional players.
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Not much is left over for pitching if Jason and Justin are extended. We will have to go cheap at a couple of the rotation spots. Guys like Hale, Hursh, Sims and Parsons will have to come through.

I think there will likely also be a need to find cheap in house solutions to center and third.
 
The answer is to back load the contracts. With the inflation in contracts going right now it won't look as bad by the time we get there.

For pitching we have 3 great young starters. I feel more confident Wren can pull a Harang out his hat than he can a good offensive player. Hale has earned a shot in the rotation. That leaves 1 spot plus depth. I think Peavy on a 1-2 year deal will happen. So long as we don't trade Andrelton.
 
Hale is averaging 4.3 ks per 9 with 3.7 bb/9. Saying he's earned a spot in the rotation is awfully concerning to me.

ok, sample size maybe.....78 innings.

In Gwinnet he had 114 innings and average 6 ks per 9 with 2.8 walkes per 9. That's not going to cut it.
 
gilesfan said:
Hale is averaging 4.3 ks per 9 with 3.7 bb/9. Saying he's earned a spot in the rotation is awfully concerning to me.

ok, sample size maybe.....78 innings.

In Gwinnet he had 114 innings and average 6 ks per 9 with 2.8 walkes per 9. That's not going to cut it.
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I don't have great expectations. But his repertoire strikes me as being better suited to being a starting pitcher. Ground ball pitchers don't need the great strikeout to walk ratios to be effective. I'd be ok with him as fifth starter. I'm more concerned about who is going to be the #4 in the rotation. We would have to keep our fingers crossed on someone like Edwin Jackson.

We would also have Martin and Hursh in AAA.

Plus I'd like to see the team signed a currently injured pitcher on an incentive-laden deal. Something similar to what we did with Floyd last off-season.

The approach outlined above is not ideal. But the injuries to Medlen and Beachy have scrambled things up. And Graham's inability to recover from his shoulder injury has hurt too. We've had some adverse developments with respect to starting pitching this year that will spill over into 2015.
 
Hale has done nothing but pitch well when he starts. 2.22 era as a starter this year, had 2 good starts to end last year, and he has a 3.12 fip as a starter this year. I know small sample size. Well he has earned a bigger sample size.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Hale has done nothing but pitch well when he starts. 2.22 era as a starter this year, had 2 good starts to end last year, and he has a 3.12 fip as a starter this year. I know small sample size. Well he has earned a bigger sample size.
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K/9 is one of the weaker measuring sticks for whether or not a guy can cut it as a MLB starter.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Hale has done nothing but pitch well when he starts. 2.22 era as a starter this year, had 2 good starts to end last year, and he has a 3.12 fip as a starter this year. I know small sample size. Well he has earned a bigger sample size.
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If you're going to put Hale in the rotation next year and let Harang walk why not start now? Give some September starts to Hale and see if he's worthy of a spot.
 
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