And this is why I brought up cui bono. The evidence is now damning and incontrovertible. No one serious can continue claiming it never happened now. So as they try to find lower scapegoats to hang out to dry, it becomes a matter of asking: who benefited? Who was it really for? Rudy is working for free, his political career is dead as a doornail, he has no personal benefit here.
Impeachment
- Thread starter 57Brave
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And this is why I brought up cui bono. The evidence is now damning and incontrovertible. No one serious can continue claiming it never happened now. So as they try to find lower scapegoats to hang out to dry, it becomes a matter of asking: who benefited? Who was it really for? Rudy is working for free, his political career is dead as a doornail, he has no personal benefit here.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Sacrificing Rudy is the least bad of a bad set of options. It won't save the Chosen One from impeachment. But it may provide some people with a limited amount of cover.
I actually think it's a huge mistake. We already saw Rudy set a lot of these latest events in motion showing text messages on TV to defend himself from scapegoating. There's no way he's going to lay down and eat anyone else's sins, and I think trying to force it on him will just lead to more revelations.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
They have to act that way. If they go out and say we know he was a crook and it was just a matter of time before he screwed up and got impeached it would feed into the Republicans narrative. The corruption of the Trump administration is unprecedented. No one should be shocked. Everyone should be outraged.
Runnin
Well-known member
I'm not as cynical. I think most politicians try to do the right thing most of the time.
Politics is a game of sorts and there are rules that politicians know they shouldn't cross. Trump doesn't know and doesn't care about these rules or norms.
Runnin
Well-known member
I think it's too late to sacrifice Rudy to save Trump and Trump will not go out without bringing everyone down with him. His behavior already has shown that.
striker42
Well-known member
I disagree. I think extreme corruption is the norm. I think the difference is that the Trump administration is less savvy at hiding and spinning the corruption.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Some corruption is normal. The Chosen One's administration is way above the norm when it comes to corruption and criminality. It is always way above average when it comes to stupidity and incompetence. But that is another matter.
I could agree with this for the most part. We know the Clinton's were corrupt. It's likely GW was as well. Obama we'll find out with time, but I doubt he was squeaky clean either.
But aside from the Clintons, they all pail in comparison to Trump.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
I dont have the time left to do it today but I will compile a whole list of Trump corruption we know about. But just for starters he has his kids as advisers while they are still running his businesses. I believe they tried to get Qatar to bail out Kushner's real estate blunders then retaliated against them when they said no. There is all the diverting of money to his own properties. Its no secret that people stay at his hotels to curry favor with him as mentioned by the Ukranian President. I think his head of the EPA had a sound proof telephone booth. There is a whole lot off the top of my head but I just dont have the remaining time today to research them to make sure they are correct. There are many factors with Trump that no other President had.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
President Trump denied that he had linked military aid to Ukraine with a commitment by Kyiv to investigate the 2016 presidential elections when pressed on the matter by a Republican senator in August, according to the lawmaker.
In an interview, Sen. Ron Johnson (R., Wis.) said he learned of a potential quid pro quo from the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, who told him that aid to Ukraine was tied to the desire by Mr. Trump and his allies to have Kyiv undertake investigations related to the 2016 U.S. elections.
Mr. Johnson raised the issue with Mr. Trump in a phone call on Aug. 31, shortly before the senator was due to meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. In the call, Mr. Trump flatly rejected the notion that he directed aides to make military aid to Ukraine contingent on a new investigation by Kyiv, Mr. Johnson said.
Mr. Johnson, who supports aid to Ukraine and is the chairman of a Senate subcommittee with jurisdiction over the region, said Mr. Trump was adamant on the issue. “He said—expletive deleted—‘No way. I would never do that. Who told you that?” the Wisconsin senator recalled. Mr. Johnson told Mr. Trump that he had learned of the arrangement from Mr. Sondland.
The White House didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment. Mr. Sondland, a former hotel executive and major Trump donor who was confirmed to the ambassador job last year, didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment through a spokesperson.
About a week after Mr. Johnson’s conversation with the president, Bill Taylor, a top U.S. diplomat in Kiev, in a text message to Mr. Sondland also linked the hold on aid to the investigations the president was seeking. “I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign,” Mr. Taylor wrote.
Mr. Sondland responded by disputing Mr. Taylor’s assertion. “I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions,” he wrote. “The President has been crystal clear no quid pro quo’s of any kind.” He added: “I suggest we stop the back and forth by text.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-...e-ukraine-on-biden-texts-indicate-11570205661
Senator Johnson, Ambassador Sondland and the Chosen One need to have a conversation.
In an interview, Sen. Ron Johnson (R., Wis.) said he learned of a potential quid pro quo from the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, who told him that aid to Ukraine was tied to the desire by Mr. Trump and his allies to have Kyiv undertake investigations related to the 2016 U.S. elections.
Mr. Johnson raised the issue with Mr. Trump in a phone call on Aug. 31, shortly before the senator was due to meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. In the call, Mr. Trump flatly rejected the notion that he directed aides to make military aid to Ukraine contingent on a new investigation by Kyiv, Mr. Johnson said.
Mr. Johnson, who supports aid to Ukraine and is the chairman of a Senate subcommittee with jurisdiction over the region, said Mr. Trump was adamant on the issue. “He said—expletive deleted—‘No way. I would never do that. Who told you that?” the Wisconsin senator recalled. Mr. Johnson told Mr. Trump that he had learned of the arrangement from Mr. Sondland.
The White House didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment. Mr. Sondland, a former hotel executive and major Trump donor who was confirmed to the ambassador job last year, didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment through a spokesperson.
About a week after Mr. Johnson’s conversation with the president, Bill Taylor, a top U.S. diplomat in Kiev, in a text message to Mr. Sondland also linked the hold on aid to the investigations the president was seeking. “I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign,” Mr. Taylor wrote.
Mr. Sondland responded by disputing Mr. Taylor’s assertion. “I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions,” he wrote. “The President has been crystal clear no quid pro quo’s of any kind.” He added: “I suggest we stop the back and forth by text.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-...e-ukraine-on-biden-texts-indicate-11570205661
Senator Johnson, Ambassador Sondland and the Chosen One need to have a conversation.
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Did I read this correctly? Trump encouraging Pelosi to hold an impeachment vote?
I hope she calls his bluff.
I hope she calls his bluff.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I'm sure Nancy will grant both your wishes.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
So many questions I wish reporters would ask Trump.
"Would you be willing to testify under oath that you have never been informed by your staff or colleagues that your Biden accusations have been proven false?"
"Given that you have pointed to similar actions by other Presidents politicians to justify your adm innistrations policy, do you believe that Bipartisan support by members of Congress for the prosecutor removal as well as the support of much of the international community to remove the prosecutor exonerates Joe Biden"
"Do you believe it is appropriate for future Presidents to ask foreign leaders to open investigations into you and your sons buisness dealings. If not, do you think that would be grounds for impeaching and removing that future President?"
"What do you make of the letter the undersecretary at the Pentagon sent to lawmakers on Capitol Hill back in May certifying that Ukraine has taken substantial steps to decrease corruption and increase accountability "
"Can you explain to me why you felt the need to try to discredit the Mueller report when you claim it fully exonerated you"
"Would you accept the results if any investigation into Biden that did not find criminal actions?"
"Since you are so concerned with Bidens kids profiting off the Vice Presidency, do you see any issue with your sons girlfriend who has no outside of being your sons girlfriend receiving 50,000 dollars for a single speech?"
"You have cited Hunter Biden receiving a lucrative contract from an Ukrainian oil company as corrupt because he has no experience in the oil buisness. Can you tell me what experience Gordon Sondland had in diplomacy before you named him ambassador to the EU?"
"Would you be willing to testify under oath that you have never been informed by your staff or colleagues that your Biden accusations have been proven false?"
"Given that you have pointed to similar actions by other Presidents politicians to justify your adm innistrations policy, do you believe that Bipartisan support by members of Congress for the prosecutor removal as well as the support of much of the international community to remove the prosecutor exonerates Joe Biden"
"Do you believe it is appropriate for future Presidents to ask foreign leaders to open investigations into you and your sons buisness dealings. If not, do you think that would be grounds for impeaching and removing that future President?"
"What do you make of the letter the undersecretary at the Pentagon sent to lawmakers on Capitol Hill back in May certifying that Ukraine has taken substantial steps to decrease corruption and increase accountability "
"Can you explain to me why you felt the need to try to discredit the Mueller report when you claim it fully exonerated you"
"Would you accept the results if any investigation into Biden that did not find criminal actions?"
"Since you are so concerned with Bidens kids profiting off the Vice Presidency, do you see any issue with your sons girlfriend who has no outside of being your sons girlfriend receiving 50,000 dollars for a single speech?"
"You have cited Hunter Biden receiving a lucrative contract from an Ukrainian oil company as corrupt because he has no experience in the oil buisness. Can you tell me what experience Gordon Sondland had in diplomacy before you named him ambassador to the EU?"
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cajunrevenge
Well-known member
Except in this case El Presidente released the evidence of him asking a foreign leader to open a politically motivated investigation into his perceived main political rival that he knows are false. For someone who didn't collude with Putin he sure likes using Putins playbook.
striker42
Well-known member
"The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”
-Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
This was written in 1980. It is one of the most true statements ever written.
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”
-Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
This was written in 1980. It is one of the most true statements ever written.
Its fun to watch all over again. It will end up being the same result and then 6 months from now another democrat operative will release some BIG news.